Yachtsmen Carrying Knives (UK)

[ImpImp]

The army train for what is needed in time of war, not in peacetime, certain people eg the SAS, and no doubt others will have been trained in things not needed on UK roads.

For such reasons and others UKSF on duty hold the same exemptions for Road Traffic laws and regulations as Police etc

Getting back to the matter in hand some of our less bright members of the Police force can take some believing. Eq the one who wanted to confiscate my sword, which might have been reasonable as he was manning a checkpoint into a major event in London. However the fact that I was in full blues and showing my ID card, might have indicated that I had good reason to have the (in fact rather blunt) item with me.

ETA: After a period of discussion the chap's sergeant turned up and told him to stop being a bdy fool.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

For such reasons and others UKSF on duty hold the same exemptions for Road Traffic laws and regulations as Police etc

Getting back to the matter in hand some of our less bright members of the Police force can take some believing. Eq the one who wanted to confiscate my sword, which might have been reasonable as he was manning a checkpoint into a major event in London. However the fact that I was in full blues and showing my ID card, might have indicated that I had good reason to have the (in fact rather blunt) item with me.

ETA: After a period of discussion the chap's sergeant turned up and told him to stop being a bdy fool.

An ex HAC friend of mine is a pikeman, he was similarly stopped on his way to the Lord Mayors parade. In uniform, on foot. A non Met copper drafted in for the day.

 

[LittleSister]

It is now illegal to send any 'knife or blade' through the Royal Mail, I just read on a Royal Mail website. The definitions of these seem to include an awful lot of tools and parts that boaters might use, as well as knives as such.

'IMPORTANT NOTICE: From 22 April 2024 we will be prohibiting ‘Knives or Blades’ defined by s141A Criminal Justice Act 1988 and ‘Bladed Products’ as defined by s41 of Offensive Weapons Act 2019 from the Royal Mail network. Currently, these items can only be sent using our Age Verification service and returned using Royal Mail Tracked Returns®. However, from 22 April 2024 sending and returning these items to UK destinations via any Royal Mail service will be prohibited, meaning that these items cannot be sent even if our Age Verification service is used. Our Age verification service will still be available for other age restricted items, including alcohol and, unless prohibited elsewhere, you can still send items not covered by the Acts.'


'Knives or Blades' has a broad definition in the CJ Act - any knife, knife blade or razor blade, any axe, and any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person.

A 'bladed product' has a very broad definition in the OW Act - it's anything that has a blade and is capable of causing serious injury to a person which involves cutting their skin.

Both definitions can be narrowed by Ministerial Order. I've no idea whether, and if so to what extent, they have been, and I doubt Royal Mail operatives have either.

 

[14K478]

For such reasons and others UKSF on duty hold the same exemptions for Road Traffic laws and regulations as Police etc

Getting back to the matter in hand some of our less bright members of the Police force can take some believing. Eq the one who wanted to confiscate my sword, which might have been reasonable as he was manning a checkpoint into a major event in London. However the fact that I was in full blues and showing my ID card, might have indicated that I had good reason to have the (in fact rather blunt) item with me.

ETA: After a period of discussion the chap's sergeant turned up and told him to stop being a bdy fool.

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

 

[capnsensible]

I nominate this for Post of the Year.

Yes it demonstrates that in this day and age, ID cards can be easily faked, as can just about any uniform. The 'sentry' did good. The older policeman was the fool and the complainers identity should have been checked by a simple mobile phone call on a screen. Especially with a major event.

Pongos, eh?

 

[ImpImp]

An ex HAC friend of mine is a pikeman, he was similarly stopped on his way to the Lord Mayors parade. In uniform, on foot. A non Met copper drafted in for the day.

Interesting coincidence, that was the major event to which I was referring.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Interesting coincidence, that was the major event to which I was referring.

Lots of naked weapons there. They don't like it up them, Mr Mainwaring!

 

[ImpImp]

Yes it demonstrates that in this day and age, ID cards can be easily faked, as can just about any uniform. The 'sentry' did good. The older policeman was the fool and the complainers identity should have been checked by a simple mobile phone call on a screen. Especially with a major event.

Pongos, eh?

Are you really that stupid or are you just trying to put some interest into your dull life by being argumentatively obtuse? You'll note that his Sgt observed that he was being a bdy fool. Come to think of it, are you an RAF Admin Officer - it would fit.

 

[capnsensible]

Are you really that stupid or are you just trying to put some interest into your dull life by being argumentatively obtuse? You'll note that his Sgt observed that he was being a bdy fool. Come to think of it, are you an RAF Admin Officer - it would fit.

Oh dear. No, no and no.

Think about the problem in a seamanlike fashion. Send your Coxn or whatever you call him the day before with a list of attending personnel and a mobile phone. Any problems, call the number and get instant recognition and hey presto! Instant security like wot it's meant to be.

Back to mud pies for you, laddie.

 

[14K478]

Oh dear. No, no and no.

Think about the problem in a seamanlike fashion. Send your Coxn or whatever you call him the day before with a list of attending personnel and a mobile phone. Any problems, call the number and get instant recognition and hey presto! Instant security like wot it's meant to be.

Back to mud pies for you, laddie.

Which is why the Navy get to play with the nuclear missiles. Now, if only they can get them to take off as intended...

 

[capnsensible]

Which is why the Navy get to play with the nuclear missiles. Now, if only they can get them to take off as intended...

If only they didn't have to buy them from Americans......

 

[capnsensible]

An ex HAC friend of mine is a pikeman, he was similarly stopped on his way to the Lord Mayors parade. In uniform, on foot. A non Met copper drafted in for the day.

Was he told not to tell them his name?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Was he told not to tell them his name?

Fortunately his name was indeed on the list.

 

[Neil]

I'm 70 yr old and in my youth, virtually every small boy carried a pocket knife. I still have the bone-handled two blade stockman I was given by my uncle at age 8. As a teenaged scout we carried fixed blades on our belts in public. In those 62 years, I managed not to stab anyone. I'm also a scout leader and teach knife, axe and saw safety to 11 and 12yr olds. In my view, knives are tools, not weapons.

In Ireland the laws are similar; "if you carry a sharp object capable of causing injury without good cause, you are committing an offence". So technically, if you take a sharpened pencil to a pub where there is no pub quiz you are technically breaking the law. I often have a locking pocket knife in my pocket, because I find it useful, for a variety of reasons. After a SAK folded on my fingers, I believe locking blades are much safer.

For me, this is sufficient reason, though I accept that the authorities might not find it so. If their opinions differ, so be it and I will suffer the consequences, though I will not feel as if I've done something wrong.

Certainly, it seems that the UK is obsessed with knife-carrying and perhaps with the No. of teenage stabbings, it's understandable. However, to criminalise a specific type of knife (locking, blade size) misses the point in my view, particularly as most stabbings are with kitchen knives (I don't know current UK figures, but I'd read that in the US, 80% of hospital admissions for knife wounds are with kitchen knives).

 

[Major_Clanger]

Being given a penknife was almost a rite of passage when I was a schoolboy. I've still got mine - a Bronze frame with a puny blade and an old Farthing as a centrepiece. Oddly I never thought of sticking it into anybody, that wasn't what knives were for. They were for carving one's initials, cleaning fingernails, undoing Meccano bolts, cutting plastic kit parts from sprues.......

I've been caught on both sides of the blade though, so to speak. I'd flown back from Malta still wearing my sailing gear which included a pair of salt-encrusted cargo pants. I was pulled going through the Nothing to Declare on a (I think) random check. All fine and friendly until they found a sailing knife in one of the baggy side pockets of my trousers. I'd forgotten it was there, just my sailing knife - quite old Boxwood with a folding Damascus blade. I'd genuinely forgotten it was there and was equally surprised that it hadn't been flagged at Luqa. Anyway, I was told it had to be confiscated. I argued that it was clear I was a yachtsman with reason to own the knife and that surely, if I was hell-bent on violence then I'd have done it in the air. I was now at Gatwick and about to jump on the train and go home. They weren't listening though, the knife had to stay with them. Completely daft. People are far more likely to respect the law if it is applied with common sense.

The other side of the blade was me getting mugged at knifepoint on the tube platform at Marylebone. After a thoroughly unsatisfactory conversation with the BTP it was clear nothing would be done, and so I moved-on sans wallet, self-respect and dignity.

 

[Pete7]

The army didn't do those 'high speed courses' to which you allude in your post.

Out of curiosity I need to ask were you in NI during the 980/90s?

 

[penberth3]

.....I'm also a scout leader and teach knife, axe and saw safety to 11 and 12yr olds. In my view, knives are tools, not weapons.

....I often have a locking pocket knife in my pocket, because I find it useful, for a variety of reasons. After a SAK folded on my fingers, I believe locking blades are much safer.....

The teacher himself needs a bit of instruction in knife safety!

 

[14K478]

I am a very bad man because for the last thirty years I have carried a Leatherman Wave in the original leather sheath on my belt. Not the original knife, because I absentmindedly forgot to put it in my checked baggage.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

As a handyman, and gardener I have wandered around in the street with axes, saws, pruning knives and indeed talked to policemen while doing so when they asked if I had seen x y z or if I knew who owned which wrecked motorised thing. The police never batted an eye - I was clearly going about my lawful occasions with the tools I needed. My son took his entire cheffing knife kit as cabin luggage on one plane trip without airline or security raising protest - he simply stated he was achef and that was his most essential kit to be kept safe by him.

As I might need knife urgently when going to mooring etc I openly carry and admitted blunt pointed knife on a lanyard quite openly and again no waterside publican has thought to comment and no one has called the police.

I guess being aged and unlikely as a youth gang member helps nowadays but I had no issues when young either.

Camping in Italy I was advised that police did not like small concealable knives but my large lock knife to cut bread or salami was self evidently a utility

 

[penberth3]

Well, after all this I could have used a knife today! A blocked Right of Way, a gate firmly secured with binder twine. The knots weren't too hard to undo but a knife would have quicker, and I could have stabbed the farmer!