Yachtsmen Carrying Knives (UK)

[Romeo]

I seem to remember back when I joined ybw forum that there was a lot of fuss about the introduction of knife laws, meaning that one cannot carry a blade without lawful excuse. Many were outraged about the fact they may technically be breaking the law at times.

Just wondering if it has ever actually been a problem in practice. Has anyone on here ever been searched/ arrested, or do they directly know of anyone who has got into a trouble for carrying a knife intended for sailing?

 

[Minerva]

I think the law is written such as if you’ve got a good reason for carrying a knife, you’ll be OK but the police have an obligation to charge you and you prove your innocence in court.

So out sailing - no problem (also no one to search you on a bot)
A knife in your kit bag on way to/from sailing. Fine.
You moor up for the night and go to the pub with a knife in your pocket. You’d be having a bad day indeed if the police searched you.

The probability of a white, middle aged, middle class bloke being searched is low but not nil.

None the less, my sailing knife is a fixed neon orange divers knife. No chance at all about it erroneously being left in a pocket.

 

[dunedin]

I never carry a knife. On board the knife stays below in the chart table drawer. Zero reason to carry one ashore.

If sailing a trapeze dinghy would be different, as a knife is important. But many have a hook end, so much less dangerous. And of course always travel in kit bag.

 

[DanTribe]

I was joining a yacht taking part in a race to be started by Prince Phillip. It started raining so I went inside the club which had already been searched. The police wanted to know why I was there, why was I carrying a large knife and a marline spike. That was all sorted eventually, but then the sniffer dog took great interest in the large pot of chile I had.

 

[Whaup367]

...
The probability of a white, middle aged, middle class bloke being searched is low but not nil...

This, especially in rural areas.

I always carry at least one knife (SAK), unless I'm flying. Feel undressed without.

 

[Momac]

Why would you carry a knife that is for sailing use when you are not on the boat or at least in the vicinity of the boat?
If you are on the boat the you have your reasonable excuse .

 

[Momac]

I was once surprised to be asked if I was armed (they meant armed with gun). It was a polite request as, if armed, you were requested to leave the weapon at the reception area of the restaurant.
As it happened I was unarmed which was almost disappointing.
We had been advised not to carry a gun as if ambushed they attackers would certainly kill you while if unarmed they would just beat you up.
That was not in the UK of course
But really carrying a weapon of any sort in public is potentially asking for trouble.

 

[mjcoon]

I think the law is written such as if you’ve got a good reason for carrying a knife, you’ll be OK but the police have an obligation to charge you and you prove your innocence in court.

That does not sound like the basic tenet of UK law: innocent until proved guilty! I wonder how it is actually phrased?

 

[Trident]

I don't think I have been out without a knife for the last 30 plus years except when heading to an airport or an embassy

I have a nice folding lock blade knife that can be opened one handed in any emergency and is razor sharp always to cut myself free of lines or seatbelts (not that I wear them as they're actually more dangerous than not) - but I am a white middle aged man and whilst the clip of the knife is always visible outside my pocket I have never had a second look from a copper even when walking past them in London near potentially sensitive areas.

It's a normal tool of my everyday life and a vital one for sailing and never ever a weapon because its quicker to use empty hands if needed.

 

[Romeo]

That does not sound like the basic tenet of UK law: innocent until proved guilty! I wonder how it is actually phrased?

I tried to look up the law before posting, but my (work) computer blocked all the search terms that included knife! Not even sure if the law is the same in Scotland and England. However fairly sure you can explain reasonable excuse and fairly sure the police will listen to that, rather than just sending you to court.

Which rather gets me back to the original question. Does anyone know anyone who has actually had bother in the UK because they were carrying a knife principally for use on their boat? (I almost got myself into bother one time because I was using my nav bag as a briefcase. Went back to my car to remove knife, tape and hand held VHF before going through security at The State Hospital.)

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I found carrying knife both on and off the boat a nuisance. I might rue the decision one day . I don't seem to remember an " If only I had a knife " story from a yachtsman. I remember a case from a trekker in N America who got his hand stuck in rocks and actually severed some fingers to escape.

 

[fredrussell]

I must confess I have a vague mistrust of any grown man (sexist, I know) that doesn’t carry a Swiss Army knife, or at least some sort of folding knife or multitool, just such a profoundly useful thing to have on your person.

 

[LittleSister]

According to the UK Government website Selling, buying and carrying knives and weapons (n.b. not authoritative on law, but good enough for these purposes):

Basic laws on knives and weapons​

It’s illegal to use any knife or weapon in a threatening way. . .

It’s also illegal to:

• carry most knives or any weapons in public without a ‘good reason’
• sell most knives or any weapons to anyone under the age of 18

The exception to these 2 rules are folding pocketknives that:

• have a cutting edge no longer than 3 inches
• are not lock knives (they do not have a button, spring or catch that you have to use to fold the knife)

In Scotland, you’re allowed to sell 16 and 17 year olds cutlery and kitchen knives.

Good reasons for carrying a knife or weapon in public​

If the knife or weapon is not banned, some examples of ‘good reasons’ include using it:

• for your work
• for religious reasons, such as the kirpan some Sikhs carry
• as part of any national costume

A court will decide if you’ve got a good reason to carry a knife or a weapon if you’re charged with carrying it illegally.

If you want advice on what counts as a ‘good reason’, contact your local police or get legal advice.

Banned knives and weapons​

If a knife or weapon is listed in the following table [on the website - e.g. flick knives, swords, swordsticks etc.], it’s illegal to:

• possess it
• bring it into the UK
• sell or hire it out
• lend or give it to someone

There are some legal exemptions. . .

 

[Thistle]

That does not sound like the basic tenet of UK law: innocent until proved guilty! I wonder how it is actually phrased?

You've committed the offence by being in possession of the knife; you have to prove that you had "reasonable excuse" for doing so.

 

[mjcoon]

You've committed the offence by being in possession of the knife; you have to prove that you had "reasonable excuse" for doing so.

I think the wording we've just been shown does not agree with that; the offence includes not having a good reason and is not separate. If you don't understand that I hope you are not going to do jury duty (I'm too old)!

 

[WannabePirate]

I carry a knife in my pocket when on a boat, and have carried a full-size one in my pocket for years abroad.

I've always found a knife useful in my daily life. In the UK I took to carrying a small knife on my keyring. Blade about 1" if that to an equally sized handle. It was smaller than a key folded up, but it did lock upon opening.

Every time I came into contact with police over the years carrying that knife, on the odd occasion they would notice it the conversation went something like:
"Why you got that knife?"
"Opening packages and stuff"
"Shouldn't really have it on you"
"Oh sorry, didn't know, thought it was small"
End of knife conversation.

I do expect if I was carrying my rather larger locking sailing knife, which I like to do in other countries, the UK police would take more issue with it. I think they have their usual powers of discretion and can tell my tiny blade attached to a bunch of keys is unlikely to be carried as a weapon. But big nasty looking sailing knife very well could be.

 

[onesea]

I rarely carry a knife, but often have one knocking around in my car on the boat etc.
I ipused to keep my leatherman in my car until an MOT tester pointed out as being kind of obvious and a police man in a grump might get upset.
Now I just have an assortment of random tools.


then you see some of the knife handed in and you think just put them in your kitchen draw.

Cambridgeshire police knife amnesty is launched

 

[dunedin]

I don't think I have been out without a knife for the last 30 plus years except when heading to an airport or an embassy

I have a nice folding lock blade knife that can be opened one handed in any emergency and is razor sharp always to cut myself free of lines or seatbelts (not that I wear them as they're actually more dangerous than not) - but I am a white middle aged man and whilst the clip of the knife is always visible outside my pocket I have never had a second look from a copper even when walking past them in London near potentially sensitive areas.

It's a normal tool of my everyday life and a vital one for sailing and never ever a weapon because its quicker to use empty hands if needed.

What do you do in your everyday life that needs you to carry a knife - whereas most of us never need a knife outside of our kitchens?
Hardly a credible excuse of expecting to need to cut free of a seatbelt (more likely to need to escape the clutches of a Martian).

With so many people killed by knives (including tragically a young neighbour) what do you think gives you the right to flout the law?

 

[dunedin]

I think the wording we've just been shown does not agree with that; the offence includes not having a good reason and is not separate. If you don't understand that I hope you are not going to do jury duty (I'm too old)!

The 3 good reasons listed include “work”, but not hobby / sport.

 

[Whaup367]

A pocket knife is a tool, not a weapon.

As above, I use a versatile Swiss Army type, not something Crocodile Dundee would wield.

(I feel I should be linking to the thread about opening biscuit packets here)