Momac
Well-known member
A pocket knife which does not lock open and has a less than 3 inch blade as defined below may legally be carried.
Yachtsmen Carrying Knives (UK)
- Thread starter Romeo
- Start date
Bobc
Well-known member
Best knife for cutting ropes and stuff is a serrated bread knife, carried in the cutlery draw.
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Seven Spades
Well-known member
I am sorry to say that the rules on knives is applied very strictly. It is legal to buy a locking knife and to have it at home but not n public. But if you carry it from the shop to hime you are ok but you are not ok if you go from the shop to a resturant and then home. You can be prosecuted of you do not go directly to your home.
[193211]
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I don’t “carry” knives about my person.
Theres always one in my ba, a spare in my sailing bag, one on my LJ harness, one on my climbing harness, one in my pack, several in the boat, several in the camper, carving tools in the shed, multi tools in drawers, etc. They turn up at Christmas and I’m always glad to see one. Handy things.
Not for my everyday pocket, tho. I’ve never been approached about using/ carrying knives by the police during work/ hobby activities that justify the use of one.
Theres always one in my ba, a spare in my sailing bag, one on my LJ harness, one on my climbing harness, one in my pack, several in the boat, several in the camper, carving tools in the shed, multi tools in drawers, etc. They turn up at Christmas and I’m always glad to see one. Handy things.
Not for my everyday pocket, tho. I’ve never been approached about using/ carrying knives by the police during work/ hobby activities that justify the use of one.
Zing
Well-known member
I carry a locking leatherman on my belt.UK and elsewhere. No problems so far, but no challenges either.
thinwater
Well-known member
I'm from the US. (Not sayin' I agree) Yes, open carry is allowed nearly everywhere. Restrictions on knives would be greeted with rolling laughter, even by the left.
wrr
Active member
Apart from the cannabis issue, the attached is somewhat concerning:
See: Sailing instructor caught with knife appears in front of Isle of Wight magistrates
See: Sailing instructor caught with knife appears in front of Isle of Wight magistrates
Mister E
Well-known member
Why did he plead guilty?
Plum
Well-known member
I have never had a problem. Always have knives on board but on my lifejacket, which I wear when going ashore by tender and may take into the pub, I have one of these Force 4 Safety Cutter with Sheath
Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
oldgit
Well-known member
Err that does rather look like one of my kitchen draws......I rarely carry a knife, but often have one knocking around in my car on the boat etc.
I ipused to keep my leatherman in my car until an MOT tester pointed out as being kind of obvious and a police man in a grump might get upset.
Now I just have an assortment of random tools.
then you see some of the knife handed in and you think just put them in your kitchen draw.
Cambridgeshire police knife amnesty is launched
The collection of knives assembled from when Dad passed on, he was never knownly underknived wether at home, on the boat or in his car.
My contribution was usually some pathetic knock off Swiss Army Knife, it life was usually short,either being lost over the side or confiscated at airport security.
Once always had something "sharp" aboard to cut stuff in an emergency, the last time it was used in anger /embarrassment was on a jammed rope in a Thames lock.
Not 100% sure there is still a proper boat knife on the boat these days, is how ever some really sharp stuff in the draw in the galley.
Cannot quite summon up the interest to get the entire collection together and dispose of it sensibly, there are some rather nice bonehandled examples complete with real cow sheathes.
Stemar
Well-known member
Swiss army knife - no problem. Multitool with locking blade - you're not obliged to say anything... even though my multitools have smaller blades than the SAK.
Just a typical bit of Something Must Be Done legislation that has all sorts of unintended consequences while doing nothing to fix the problem.
Just a typical bit of Something Must Be Done legislation that has all sorts of unintended consequences while doing nothing to fix the problem.
davidej
Well-known member
YES , I was arrested at Stansted airport.
I was on a sailing trip in Italy and put my sailing bits and pieces in an ice cream tub in my hold luggage. Ryanair told me that I was 2 kg overweight and to take some things out and put them in my shoulder bag. Of course I chose the tub and as I walked to security, I realized my knife was in it.
I explained all this to the lady at security and she examined it closely. Then she found that it was a lock knife and called her boss. He looked at it and called two armed police who marched me away.
I asked them what they intended to do and they said that they were going to find their Sargent. After walking around looking for ten minutes, I said that my flight was about to close. They then told me to bu**er off but wouldn’t give me my knife back!
I was on a sailing trip in Italy and put my sailing bits and pieces in an ice cream tub in my hold luggage. Ryanair told me that I was 2 kg overweight and to take some things out and put them in my shoulder bag. Of course I chose the tub and as I walked to security, I realized my knife was in it.
I explained all this to the lady at security and she examined it closely. Then she found that it was a lock knife and called her boss. He looked at it and called two armed police who marched me away.
I asked them what they intended to do and they said that they were going to find their Sargent. After walking around looking for ten minutes, I said that my flight was about to close. They then told me to bu**er off but wouldn’t give me my knife back!
BobnLesley
Well-known member
I wasn't aware of that bit, the penknife that I've been carrying for >50 years (a gift from my father) locks open.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
I don't think that would stand up in court as a reasonable excuse to be carrying a knife.
The fact that you've got away with it isn't because the police approve of you carrying it, it's because they're not aware that you are.
And why do you think it's safer not to wear a seatbelt? The seatbelt law was brought in for a very good reason.
ylop
Well-known member
If you have a knife for a legitimate marine use which you are either engaged in or on your way to or from you have “a good reason” as required by law. The police have discretion on whether to report to prosecutors and prosecutors certainly have discretion whether to pursue, both (a) if it’s not in the public interest to do so and (b) if they believe there is no realistic prospect of a conviction.
The IOW case above is an interesting one, as on the face of it there doesn’t seem to be any problem with a sailing instructor having a sailing style knife zipped up in a bag in the boot of their car; yet he the police pursued it, the prosecutor didn’t drop it and he pled guilty, and the prosecutor accepted the guilty plea and seems to have read out a narration which would be consistent with a defence. Now lots of people plead guilty for simplicity - to get the matter resolved get a discount on their sentence, some do so with legal advice some without. Some plead guilty to something they were technically not guilty of as part of a negotiated plea on another matter (eg, plead guilty to possession or cananabis and the knife (with an agreed narration) and we will not pursue an intent to supply charge). Those may or may not be good for justice, but it happens every day. A guilty plea in a magistrates court does not create case law for every other sailor. My guess though is that he just left that bag in the back of his car 24/7 and was neither going to, nor coming from, sailing when he was stopped. That makes his defence harder - but probably not impossible. Can he convince the bench that “I keep my sailing bag in the car just in case” was a good reason? I think that might depend on what he can show his work patterns were, how often he was sailing etc. it’s a bit like the person above saying if you buy a knife you must go straight home not to a restaurant - every case is actually different and not about hard and fast rules. But a knife at 11:45, put it in the boot, stop at McDonalds on way home at 12:20 and for some reason car gets searched as you are leaving McD’s - different from buying a knife at 11:45 putting it in your pocket meeting a friend for lunch at 14:00 and getting the knife out to show them your shiny new purchase!
Whilst “innocent until proven guilty” is the premise of English law there are offences of strict liability - eg, no insurance on your car, your job to show it was insured not the crowns job to show it was not. Similarly there are many statutory offences which have legally defined defences - like possession of a knife in a public place. Statutory defences are tested on the balance of probabilities, a lower bar than prosecution which as we all know is beyond reasonable doubt. Every time you carry a knife with a locking blade OR longer than 3” blade you roll the dice - will you get stopped, will the knife come to light, will the cops accept your story, will the prosecutor laugh at the idea of prosecuting you, will the magistrates agree with you: the typical demographic here may be least likely to be searched… …on the otherhand they may be likely to fail the attitude test! They may be more likely to be credible to prosecutor or magistrates or afford a decent solicitor to remind those people of the law, but the more often you do it the more often you roll the dice.
Nothing to stop you carrying a small, folding, non-locking knife for those difficult to open biscuits. That must make it harder for the magistrates to imagine why you need a locking or larger blade just in case. I suggest not carrying even a penknife to court when you go to defend yourself - court security staff remove knives from people on a daily basis!
The IOW case above is an interesting one, as on the face of it there doesn’t seem to be any problem with a sailing instructor having a sailing style knife zipped up in a bag in the boot of their car; yet he the police pursued it, the prosecutor didn’t drop it and he pled guilty, and the prosecutor accepted the guilty plea and seems to have read out a narration which would be consistent with a defence. Now lots of people plead guilty for simplicity - to get the matter resolved get a discount on their sentence, some do so with legal advice some without. Some plead guilty to something they were technically not guilty of as part of a negotiated plea on another matter (eg, plead guilty to possession or cananabis and the knife (with an agreed narration) and we will not pursue an intent to supply charge). Those may or may not be good for justice, but it happens every day. A guilty plea in a magistrates court does not create case law for every other sailor. My guess though is that he just left that bag in the back of his car 24/7 and was neither going to, nor coming from, sailing when he was stopped. That makes his defence harder - but probably not impossible. Can he convince the bench that “I keep my sailing bag in the car just in case” was a good reason? I think that might depend on what he can show his work patterns were, how often he was sailing etc. it’s a bit like the person above saying if you buy a knife you must go straight home not to a restaurant - every case is actually different and not about hard and fast rules. But a knife at 11:45, put it in the boot, stop at McDonalds on way home at 12:20 and for some reason car gets searched as you are leaving McD’s - different from buying a knife at 11:45 putting it in your pocket meeting a friend for lunch at 14:00 and getting the knife out to show them your shiny new purchase!
Whilst “innocent until proven guilty” is the premise of English law there are offences of strict liability - eg, no insurance on your car, your job to show it was insured not the crowns job to show it was not. Similarly there are many statutory offences which have legally defined defences - like possession of a knife in a public place. Statutory defences are tested on the balance of probabilities, a lower bar than prosecution which as we all know is beyond reasonable doubt. Every time you carry a knife with a locking blade OR longer than 3” blade you roll the dice - will you get stopped, will the knife come to light, will the cops accept your story, will the prosecutor laugh at the idea of prosecuting you, will the magistrates agree with you: the typical demographic here may be least likely to be searched… …on the otherhand they may be likely to fail the attitude test! They may be more likely to be credible to prosecutor or magistrates or afford a decent solicitor to remind those people of the law, but the more often you do it the more often you roll the dice.
Nothing to stop you carrying a small, folding, non-locking knife for those difficult to open biscuits. That must make it harder for the magistrates to imagine why you need a locking or larger blade just in case. I suggest not carrying even a penknife to court when you go to defend yourself - court security staff remove knives from people on a daily basis!
Frogmogman
Well-known member
They should have a system where valuable items impounded in this way can be reclaimed upon return. They could charge a small fee for this.
My daughter had the carbon fibre compressed air bottle for her avalanche air bag system seized by Eurostar, even though it was NOT on their list of proscribed items. It cost €130 to replace.
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pretzel_logic
New member
Hi
New here (long time lurker) but I can assist as I've some experience with this.
This one of the offences in law where the onus is on the person to show that they had a defence for having the article with them. The legislation is worded that mere possession is an offence and that defences may be available.
As stated defences are national costume, work, religious reasons, education reasons, but also any good reason or lawful authority. A diver on way to a dive, fishermen on way to fish, as described to take to boat or for sailing etc etc.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
My sailing knife has a locking blade. It never leaves the boat. Is the sea a public place? Is the boat private? Clearly it’s not an offence to have a knife on a boat, to rational people. Hopefully the nut cases don’t go to sea.
fisherman
Well-known member
I went to the small claims court and lost my Opinel to the security search. I complained that after fifty years as a fisherman it was a habit, they said I could write and appeal but it wouldn't make any difference, and I was lucky not to be arrested.
At the ferryport: "Got any knives?" I pointed to the kitchen area in the camper van. "OK, just keep them there"
On the flight to Scilly I had to hand it to the pilot, he gave it back on arrival.
At the ferryport: "Got any knives?" I pointed to the kitchen area in the camper van. "OK, just keep them there"
On the flight to Scilly I had to hand it to the pilot, he gave it back on arrival.
fisherman
Well-known member
I have an opinel with the collar removed. It's much more dangerous for me at least.