Yachtmaster Offshore

[bdh198]

I think there is a lot to be said for getting as much experience as you can on different boats and with different skippers. There are always things you can learn by seeing how different skippers deal with situations from managing a crew to planning a passage and dealing with adverse weather, even if all you learn is how not to do it!

This is what I did before doing my YM Offshore a few years ago. Although I had my own boat and had done most of my sailing on her, I realised I had got into certain routines and ways of doing things (sometimes without even knowing it) which really could have been done better. I therefore made an effort to broaden my experienced on unfamiliar boats with different skippers and found it really valuable. Using sites like crewseekers, and the crew wanted/available sections of club websites I found opportunities ranging from a delivery across Biscay, a delivery from Wales to western Scotland, a week’s cruising in Croatia and as crew on a Fastnet campaign. It never cost me more than my travel to get to and from the boat, and gave me skills and confidence beyond what I would ever have gained by simply sailing my own familiar boat in familiar waters.

 

[Twister_Ken]

But which would someone pick to deliver their 45ft boat into a marina?
The YM is not just a sort of IAM badge for amateur yotters, it's a professional qualification.

No, that's the commercially endorsed version. YM is for rank amateurs like me.

 

[lw395]

No, that's the commercially endorsed version. YM is for rank amateurs like me.

Professional endoresement does not involve much mre than ticking a few more boxes, a medical, sea survival, current first aid?
Oh, and paying more money every few years.
Getting ordinary YM is the substantial part of it.

 

[Bobc]

I have yet to see an examiner get a magnifying glass out when handed the qualifying experience. They can tell within 10 mins of you taking command if you can sail to the standard or not.

Quite.

 

[dom]

But which would someone pick to deliver their 45ft boat into a marina?

The one who was more careful, understood windage, slide, pivot points, the effect of tide on the foils, springing etc. For example I watched a YM instructor "demonstrating" how to bring a 42 footer into an upwind pontoon in Haslar the other week. Lot's of revving, he was pretty calm to be fair, followed by a wallop and an awful scraping sound as the fenders slid sweetly along "the top" of the pontoon! :ambivalence:

 

[Fantasie 19]

I'm afraid I will struggle to get time off work in December as is tends to be my busiest month

Are you Father Christmas??

 

[lw395]

The one who was more careful, understood windage, slide, pivot points, the effect of tide on the foils, springing etc. For example I watched a YM instructor "demonstrating" how to bring a 42 footer into an upwind pontoon in Haslar the other week. Lot's of revving, he was pretty calm to be fair, followed by a wallop and an awful scraping sound as the fenders slid sweetly along "the top" of the pontoon! :ambivalence:

That kind of thing can be seen in any size of boat, optimist up to at least Frigate?

I think that since YM's are qualified to drive and park a whole variety of boats, it's good if they have experience of a variety of boats.
But it doesn't have to stop when you get the ticket, there are certain boats I'd not want to park without a bit of refresher training or familiarisation...

 

[LadyInBed]

Steve, do you know any larger boat owners in your local area (incidental you don't say what your local area is) who you could crew for, then use that boat for exam with owner as crew?
Owner would certainly know the boat better than a novice crew!

 

[steveej]

Steve, do you know any larger boat owners in your local area (incidental you don't say what your local area is) who you could crew for, then use that boat for exam with owner as crew?
Owner would certainly know the boat better than a novice crew!

Its Cardiff Bay.

I have only owned the boat for a month, so need to get into one of the yacht clubs.

 

[Seajet]

Steveej,

that would be a good idea, I've always made a point of sailing on absolutely any boat ( dinghy or cruiser or larger ) I haven't tried before, not so I can ' tick them off as tried ' but for real enjoyment as well as learning.

However note my post, when I did YM Offshore most of my longer trips were in 22', and that was completely acceptable, don't be put off by those who make out ' only those who cart around several loos & showers a freezer, dishwasher and tons of furniture can possibly know what they're doing ' brigade, it ain't the case - quite the reverse.

 

[AndrewB]

7m + on the waterline for the qualifying passages?? Oh dear, better hand back in my Yachtmaster cert then.

 

[tcm]

Professional endoresement does not involve much mre than ticking a few more boxes, a medical, sea survival, current first aid?
Oh, and paying more money every few years.
Getting ordinary YM is the substantial part of it.

Well, yeah, you're right, but then TK is Oxbridge arts type with strong corinthian tendencies, perhaps even a time traveller from the days of "Gentlemen and Players", and not very deep down I think he believes that all sailing activities should be free and/or paid for in bacon sandwiches

 

[tcm]

I am very heartened by this thread and I hope the OP is too. ±I think it accurately reflects the supremely sensible attitude of YM examiners .... although i think there are a few YM Instructors around who might be able to shed more light on the matter.

Note that whilst you're fretting about whether your boat is a foot too short or not, loads of sometimes-not-so-suitable YM candidates are winning their YM mileage sitting on deck (or asleep) on big 60ft zero/hero machines.

The "exam" is very informal with usually only a few candidates for the entire long day. The general gig seems to be that you book a week-long course and full-day exam is at the end of that. A good idea (sometimes a requirement from some sailing schools) is to get up to speed on the theory beforehand, and web-based things like Cmonline.com are definitely worth doing first - altho the "theory test" doesn't dodge the examiner going through some/any of it again before, during of after the practical stuff.

It's high time the thread started to drift into YM-exam true-life storytelling. I like the one where the examiner arrived (Uk based exam) at boat of a few nervous candidates, and they take it turns to be the "under-scrutiny-skipper" so, first up is youngish chap, and examiner told the candidate to just set off like you would normally, and they were going off in very calm Hamble/Solent, night sailing stuff . So er ok, candidate tells everyone to put on lifejackets. Nod of approval from examiner - and the candidate said to the examiner well, you too have to put on a lifejacket. The exmainer waved him away, laughed, said he's the examiner and it's a calm night and VERY familiar local waters, so no need, but top marks for that, carry on. Candidate still insists on lifejackets for all on board, examiner demurs etc. Candidate eventually says he won't be leaving the dock UNTIL the examiner puts on lifejacket. So he does, and the exam stuff continues. Much later, examiner admits his baiting and that after that initial episode the candidate would have had to really screw things up not to have passed!

 

[dunedin]

don't be put off by those who make out ' only those who cart around several loos & showers a freezer, dishwasher and tons of furniture can possibly know what they're doing ' brigade, it ain't the case - quite the reverse.

Brilliant! Well put. ;-)

 

[steveej]

Thanks everyone.

RYA Confirmed to me today that the vessel must be over 7m LWL for qualifying sea time.

I completely understand that you need to be capable on larger boats, being able to manage crew and berthing in a marina.

Seems a shame my next season's experience on the Bristol Channel in a small boat doesn't seem to count.

So a Sadler 29 is out but a 7.1m LOA modern cheese wedge which is not much bigger than my boat is ok.

Bit nuts if I do say so myself.

 

[obmij]

Seems a shame my next season's experience on the Bristol Channel in a small boat doesn't seem to count.

Of course it counts - pretty much every day of experience in whatever vessel will make you a better sailor!

It might be that you can't count it towards the YM mileage requirements, but so what.

Dunno why people whine (not steevej) about RYA requirements. They issue the tickets so they set the rules, and no-one is obliged to take the ticket anyway.

It's great bashing around in a small vessel, teaches you a lot, however proper offshore work is also valuable. A couple of deliveries wouldn't hurt and would rack up miles pretty quickly.

 

[bitbaltic]

Thanks everyone.

RYA Confirmed to me today that the vessel must be over 7m LWL for qualifying sea time.

Seems very silly to me. Also seems to contradict what you read on the website.

So a Sadler 29 is out but a 7.1m LOA modern cheese wedge which is not much bigger than my boat is ok.

Well piffling little boats like your Hurley 22 or even the Sadler 29 will never prepare you for sea in the way that - TaDa!- the 2001 Jeanneau Sun 2500, all 24.5 feet of it, clearly will. (7.15m LWL on this Jenny: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=7221).

View attachment 54442

Only a fool would think that experience on a Centaur, Sadler or Hurley could ever prepare you for handling a boat with the sort of crew numbers and command issues, massive displacement, complex rig, immense speed, and incredible intrinsic value that is associated with the Jeanneau Sun 2500. After all Yachtmasters (with the commercial endorsement) can take command of world-girdling offshore vessels- such as the Jeanneau Sun 2500- on commercial expeditions to the ends of the Earth. How completely ridiculous it would be to let anyone without experience of such a beast of a boat, or- whisper it- an even bigger vessel, get miles towards a Yachtmaster on a mere Hurley. I hope you have seen the error of your ways!

 

[Neil]

Thanks everyone.

RYA Confirmed to me today that the vessel must be over 7m LWL for qualifying sea time.

I completely understand that you need to be capable on larger boats, being able to manage crew and berthing in a marina.

Seems a shame my next season's experience on the Bristol Channel in a small boat doesn't seem to count.

So a Sadler 29 is out but a 7.1m LOA modern cheese wedge which is not much bigger than my boat is ok.

Bit nuts if I do say so myself.

Maybe I can share my own correspondence with the RYA

Dear Sir,

I was somewhat chagrined to to learn that the boat length requirements for qualifying passages and sea time for Yachtmaster have recently been changed to >7m LWL rather than LOA. This now means that the mileage I’ve accrued, or will accrue in the future, on my Sadler 25 is no longer valid.

This is particularly disappointing in view of the fact that I bought the boat two years ago specifically to fulfil the prerequisites to Yachtmaster. I fail to understand how the Sadler 25 and even the Sadler 29, boats which have sailed the oceans, are deemed unworthy of Yachtmaster.

Consequently, I must relinquish my ambitions in this regard and this reflects badly on the RYA

Hello Neil
Thank you for your email and apologise for any confusion.
Your miles are fine. I have extracted the section from the website below to confirm.
Please email back of I can be of further help.

I’m still confused. My Sadler 25 at 7.42m LOA used to pass muster, but according to the table below, its LWL at 5.84m is now too short for my miles to qualify. I should point out that yachts such as the Sadler 26, Westerly 28, Nicholson 26, Contessa 28 and even a Sadler 29 also no longer qualify for mileage prerequististes, which seems unimaginable.

Hello Neil,
Unfortunately when defining any cut off point for eligibility there will always be situations that are unfairly disadvantage certain groups. In setting the criteria for the vessels we viewed 7m LWL as a measure of vessels with suitable sea keeping criteria and accommodation to enable suitable passages to be made.
I have discussed this with the RYA’s Chief Examiner, Richard Falk, and he recognises that older vessels are often more sea kindly than their modern equivalents and agrees that the Sadler 25 meets the spirit of the scheme. He is therefore happy to accept any mileage completed in this boat towards qualifying mileage or passages for a Yachtmaster exam.

If and when I get to do Yachtmaster Offshore, I'll have a copy of this correspondence handy........

 

[bitbaltic]

Maybe I can share my own correspondence with the RYA

In setting the criteria for the vessels we viewed 7m LWL as a measure of vessels with suitable sea keeping criteria and accommodation to enable suitable passages to be made.

I wonder how many of the baby Jeanneaus I mentioned above are making 60Nm passages. My money is on none. Very definitely there will be more Hurleys doing it let alone all the other bigger boats you mention.

The strong impression I get from previous threads on the forum is that the 7m LWL figure has as much to do with a forumite's bowsprit as it does with deep reflection within the RYA.

 

[Neil]

The strong impression I get from previous threads on the forum is that the 7m LWL figure has as much to do with a forumite's bowsprit as it does with deep reflection within the RYA.

I agree - so why didn't they amend the regs to say >7.0m LAO, excluding bowsprit (or other appendage), instead of changing to LWL?