Yachtmaster Offshore

[steveej]

Hi all,

I have a question about the Yachtmaster offshore pre requirements that I am hoping someone will be able to help with.

I have recently bought a Hurley Ravensail 22ft boat. I have dayskipper theory and practical but would like to spend the next year getting enough milage under my belt to do my Yachtmaster exam.

The RYA website suggests for the qualifying 60NM passages the boat needs to be bigger than 7m LWL. This is a shame because I only currently have 2 out of the 5 passgaes in a big boat and it seems like I can't use my own boat to do the remainder of these.

In terms of minimum sea time of 2,500 miles and 50 days, I believe I can use my own boat to make up 50% of this time.

Can anyone confirm my understanding is correct. If this is the case I may need to trade up sooner rather than later.

Cheers

 

[macd]

Bowsprit?

 

[jac]

Bowsprit?

Unless mounted at the waterline that won't help. IIRC the minimum size is 7m LWL

 

[dunedin]

This is an RYA nonsense so just be creative with your metric conversions - sure it must be around 8 metres surely ?

 

[Fantasie 19]

This is an RYA nonsense so just be creative with your metric conversions - sure it must be around 8 metres surely ?

LOA is about 6.7mtr on the 22, but either way the RYA website says it's only a "suggestion" it is over 7m?? Why not check with the RYA?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'd have more respect for the abilities of someone who has done 2500nm in a 6 m boat, than someone who'd done them in a 12m one.

 

[mainsail1]

I think you will find the reason for the 7m length minimum is that this is a qualification to show that you can manage a yacht and its crew rather than a dinghy size of vessel. Rather like an HGV as opposed to a car test. Yes, I know there can be endless debate about what constitutes a yacht but this is their best guess at it.
I would suggest you trade up early if you can, and stick to the rules.

 

[bitbaltic]

I was under the impression (from this thread: http://forums.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?409389-RYA-move-the-goal-posts&highlight=) that until about a year ago the minimum boat length for the exam (and presumably also the qualifying passages) was 7m LOA until it was changed to 7m LWL by the RYA in response to the 'problem' presented by the OP of that thread.


My impression is that 7mLOA was the RYA's 'best guess' originally but that was fudged to LWL in response to the single/isolated issue in the thread linked above. Indeed, although the RYA's Yachtmaster page correctly says the boat must be greater than 7m LWL, the coastal skipper/YM Coastal page, which repeats much of the offshore exam criteria at http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/exams/Pages/Coastalskipper.aspx talks about 7m LWL in the tables but refers to LOA in the blurb at the bottom- almost certainly an incomplete page editing job- so it is very confusing.

As has been mentioned in other threads there are a number of entirely uncontroversially 'yacht-sized' yachts, like the Centaur, which are over 7m LOA but have waterline lengths les than 7m and so, by the RYA's new definition, would be ineligible for the YM passages or exam. Having previously been perfectly eligible at 7m LOA and with 2,500+ centaurs in circulation, surely dozens of successful YM passages and exams have been taken on them, and boats like them, in the past. The criteria the RYA apply at the moment either suggest such YMs are less than valid or suggest that the criteria themselves are a knee-jerk reaction, not properly thought through, to a single incident a year ago. The least that has been achieved is to create total confusion and uncertainty amongst prospective YMs, which can hardly be good for the RYA in the long run.

Either way the OP's boat is too small on either LWL or LOA unfortunately so trading up sooner looks sensible.

 

[steveej]

The RYA link also gives a note at the bottom to say that 50% of the qualifying sea time should be spent on this size vessel.

This suggests to me that I could use my own boat to do half of the qualifying time and make up the rest on a larger charter boat.

I have sent an e-mail to RYA so I hope they get back to me.

 

[lw395]

......Either way the OP's boat is too small on either LWL or LOA unfortunately so trading up sooner looks sensible.

Or having a plan to do the passages on somebody else's boat(s).
It's not that onerous over say two seasons.
I did a few channel crossings for this purpose a while back.
I provided the boat in working order, but left the whole passage planning, management etc to a friend who wanted the mileage as skipper.
I just turned up and went along for the ride as crew and tea-boy.
Not a bad way to do a couple of early or late season wine-buying trips.
Lots of people on here with under-used boats?????

Or two candidates in the same situation could charter a boat for a weekend and skipper a passage each.
Cheaper than buying a 30ft boat I suspect, and probably more variety of experience.

 

[bitbaltic]

The RYA link also gives a note at the bottom to say that 50% of the qualifying sea time should be spent on this size vessel.

This suggests to me that I could use my own boat to do half of the qualifying time and make up the rest on a larger charter boat.

Agree. I hadn't noticed the 50% bit but it's there. Makes the whole thing even more confusing.

 

[Birdseye]

Hi all,

I have a question about the Yachtmaster offshore pre requirements that I am hoping someone will be able to help with.

I have recently bought a Hurley Ravensail 22ft boat. I have dayskipper theory and practical but would like to spend the next year getting enough milage under my belt to do my Yachtmaster exam.

The RYA website suggests for the qualifying 60NM passages the boat needs to be bigger than 7m LWL. This is a shame because I only currently have 2 out of the 5 passgaes in a big boat and it seems like I can't use my own boat to do the remainder of these.

In terms of minimum sea time of 2,500 miles and 50 days, I believe I can use my own boat to make up 50% of this time.

Can anyone confirm my understanding is correct. If this is the case I may need to trade up sooner rather than later.

Cheers

You are taking that experience pre-qual;ification a bit seriopusly if you are thinking of changing the boat! When I did my YM practical I had to makle up my experience for the very good reason that I hadnt kept a record. I may have complied. I may not. But all its about is ensuring that candidates have enough experience to give them a decent chance. So I would do the reverse of the normal marina length declaration and remeasure my Ravensail at 7.1m LWL. In most respects you will learn more sailing in a small vulnerable boat than you would in a 50ft Bav anyway. Only issue to me would be that the YM is as much about boat management / crew management as basic sailing skills and I wonder if most of your sailing on that little boat is single handed.

 

[FullCircle]

The RYA link also gives a note at the bottom to say that 50% of the qualifying sea time should be spent on this size vessel.

This suggests to me that I could use my own boat to do half of the qualifying time and make up the rest on a larger charter boat.

I have sent an e-mail to RYA so I hope they get back to me.

I am going for a late cruise starting 19th December, returning 23rd December on East Coast. You can come along if it helps, and I will give you the log book you need.

 

[steveej]

Thanks Full Circle for the kind offer.

I'm afraid I will struggle to get time off work in December as is tends to be my busiest month, but thanks very much for the offer.

Good points above about single handing a small boat versus the man management and all the rest of it that goes along with a bigger boat.

If I can use my own boat for 50% of the time then with a bit of chartering thrown I should be good to go in 12 months time.

 

[[70521]]

I have yet to see an examiner get a magnifying glass out when handed the qualifying experience. They can tell within 10 mins of you taking command if you can sail to the standard or not.

 

[dunedin]

Single handed vs managing a crew may be relevant for creating good Yacht Masters. But is irrelevant to a LWL restriction. Loads of folks singlehand much bigger boats than 7m LWL.

I guess a lot depends on why the OP wants / needs a bit of RYA paper. If it is to get a job as skipper on a 70 footer then big boat experience would be good. If just to sail own boat ........ frankly I wouldn't bother. And if for charter, do ICC instead

 

[pagoda]

I'd have more respect for the abilities of someone who has done 2500nm in a 6 m boat, than someone who'd done them in a 12m one.

+1

 

[Seajet]

I did my YMO in 1992, the RYA were perfectly happy with my several thousand miles and then 18 + crossings in my 22' ( + a few crossings in my 30' but the school and examiner seemed more impressed with the 22' stuff ).

Funnily enough I didn't spontaneously explode when faced with running a fully crewed 42' boat, which I found a doddle...

Unless something has changed, they do apply common sense.

 

[lw395]

I'd have more respect for the abilities of someone who has done 2500nm in a 6 m boat, than someone who'd done them in a 12m one.

But which would someone pick to deliver their 45ft boat into a marina?
The YM is not just a sort of IAM badge for amateur yotters, it's a professional qualification.

 

[Seajet]

But which would someone pick to deliver their 45ft boat into a marina?
The YM is not just a sort of IAM badge for amateur yotters, it's a professional qualification.

A certain snobbery and false ego going on about larger boat handling I think lw395; now a flying bridge mobo in a strong cross wind, that could get interesting for most yotties.

Hopefully the 45' owner would try observing both sailors; I found my background with lots of performance dinghy sailing - let alone 22 & 30 ' cruisers - put me at a considerable advantage to the other candidates re boat handling.

It was December and we were all out to get YMO as a pro qualification - one of the others had a 37' as his first cruiser and was shall we say at a disadvantage. The 42 we were using had no bow thruster or anything fairy like that.

I have also handled a 55' twin screw motor sailer on short jaunts but involving rather tight berthing - anyone who has grown up on war films and likes the chance to say ' slow ahead port, slow astern starboard ' will find it a doddle !