Yachting Monthly (March) MoB article.

[Juan Twothree]

"Mayday - Mayday - Mayday."

And hope I can get the casualty attached, head out of the water and that they live long enough for help to arrive. If I can get a lifting strop round them or clipped to their harness, then try and lift them with the boom and topping lift, but I wouldn't call it 100% foolproof. I was reminded today how quickly I run out of puff with abnormal exertion, and that was just treating the hulls and underside of the deck with oxalic acid. I'm knackered!

I think this is the key.

Get on the radio or whatever, and get search and rescue assets running to your assistance. If you manage to recover the casualty then all well and good, you can always stand them down.

But if you struggle for 10 or 20 minutes to get someone aboard before calling for help, that's time you'll never be able to get back.

 

[CM74]

^ Yep, and I'd argue it's also one of the only real benefits of DSC on yachts too - just one press and your name, position and the fact you are in the poo is out there straight away. You can always do a call when you have time to add any other details, or cancel it.
Though if you haven't got them back on board within 5 minutes or so (assuming cold water) then you may well need medical help anyway. I would argue that in anything other than calm sheltered water an MOB is "grave and imminent danger".

 

[capnsensible]

I think this is the key.

Get on the radio or whatever, and get search and rescue assets running to your assistance. If you manage to recover the casualty then all well and good, you can always stand them down.

But if you struggle for 10 or 20 minutes to get someone aboard before calling for help, that's time you'll never be able to get back.

Yeah, sailing schools teach this as part of the syllabus and also an introduction to use of vhf radio to get the call out.

 

[penberth3]

Lifesling and a winch. Not that hard. Getting the dead weight hooked up is hard.

Another thing to consider, which I have seen in a Clipper video (done stupidly IMO): Get a crewman into a dry suit, harness, and long tether. Have him enter the water to do the hook-up. It may be the only realistic way. But that relies upon having at least 2 people on board and one of them being a very strong, comfortable surf swimmer. I grew up in the surf, so I'm comfortable with getting knock upside down, but many are not. Yes, this risks the "second causallty" rule and should be evaluated with extreme caution and a realistic consideration of the conditions and crew skill set.

I would be very reluctant to have two people in the water and one left on board. In fact, I wouldn't do it, because one person then has to recover two. That isn't as easy as you suggest, winch or whatever.

 

[thinwater]

That's what S&R helo crewmen do - and they require lengthy specialist training. And maintain a level of physical fitness very few of us could now demonstrate. Go ask your lifeboat crew what they think of such an idea....

I said "realistic consideration," and I meant it as an understatement. I've seen some scary videos and I believe it. In that we agree.

It also depends on the conditions; it could be quite mild but the swimmer was conked by the boom in a jibe and is unconscious and perhaps have broken bones, not an unheard of scenario. In a case like this hooking the person up from the deck could be well nigh impossible, but not difficult at all for a strong swimmer. Strong ocean swimmers are quite common on the US coasts, because the water is warm and many of us grew up surfing and such. But you need to know yourself; that is seamanship.

Helo crews, on the otherhand, are called for terrible conditions. We're comparing apples with hand grenades in some cases.

 

[thinwater]

I would be very reluctant to have two people in the water and one left on board. In fact, I wouldn't do it, because one person then has to recover two. That isn't as easy as you suggest, winch or whatever.

Moderate weather inshore, your child is in the water unconscious, and you wife is on board and can sail.

I'd be in the water in seconds if need be. The alternative is to fail to recover the child and spend the next 60 years knowing you did not do what you could.

I once watched my daughter (about 18 a the time) dive in and rescue a sinking swimmer from another boat. But we are both strong open water swimmers and understand dealing with a struggling swimmer (which can be rough).

It's very situation-specific.

 

[zoidberg]

understand dealing with a struggling swimmer (which can be rough).

Probably the hardest situation ( apples, hand grenades ) is where the casualty is panicking and struggling like crazy. They'll try very hard to climb on top of you. Whoever goes into the water to help could very swiftly become the first person drowned....

That scenario is, in part, what helo winchmen ( US - 'rescue swimmers' ) train for.

 

[Capt Popeye]

For planning purposes you should assume the MoB is unable to do anything at all. And what's your simple and foolproof way of getting +100kg deadweight back on board, on your own?

Hi there Mr P ; thank you ; my guess is that in an effort to save the person who has gone MOB we should prioritise getting and keeping their Head above the water so if able to breath they can do so ; then attempt to get them aboard boat ; but a Mob clinging onto a boat to stay afloat is probably the best that we can do in a lot of cases ; with a Scramble Net I guess that there are many ways the Mob can cling onto it , as it has many handholds and also rescuers can manhandle it without actuall touching the Mob (casualty) ; if a inched hook or cable can be attatched then guess that it would improve the chances of raising the whole Scramble Net with Mob above the water levels safetly

 

[thinwater]

Anyone with even basic lifesaving training is aware of this. A hole nuther' topic. I've been "climbed" before in a lifesaving situation and there are many ways to deal with it. The standard approach is to get behind them. Also, if you let yourself sink, they tend to let go. Yup, this serious business. But I gave the example of your child in the water. What would you do? If you fail to try in reasonable conditions, if you have the ablity, you might as well just step in front of a fast train. Not simple.

 

[Stemar]

We tow our dinghy, so it's the work of a moment to get going with it, which would be my preferred action in the event of a child overboard, or any other casualty if unconscious, assuming reasonable conditions.

Far safer to stay out of the water for those of us who aren't in the first flush of youth. I'm a strong swimmer and a (once) qualified lifesaver, but not in the best of health, so I don't know how I'd cope if it came down to it.

It's also going to work better when you're effectively single handing plus Mum and kids - even if Mum can't drive the boat with any accuracy, you've got a chance of catching up and getting back on board. (Also applies to sailing Mums with passenger Dads)

Great thread, everyone. It's great to be thinking about the unthinkable, it means we've all got a few more options that may come to mind should they be needed.

 

[Roberto]

to be thinking about the unthinkable,

Another type of MOB accident seldom thought of is someone falling overboard while at anchor in places with swift currents.
By the time one starts the engine, weighs anchor and maneuver, the unfortunate may be quite a distance away, possibly drifting towards inaccessible waters (because of rocks, fishing gear/oyster beds, reduced depth and the like).
In such places we try and wear a lifejacket whenever going out of the cockpit, still falling in the water might leave people on the boat with even fewer options than while under sail.

 

[Captain Haddock]

I just read the article. I was expecting them to test the Catch and Lift which, if it works without bringing the rig down, looks about the most straightforward way of getting a conscious casualty back on board. It is the only device that I think has any prospect of my wife recovering me, so we bought one. Three steps and remembering to only circle clockwise (as the attachment is on the starboard shroud).

CATCH and LIFT MOB Rescue System

This looks really good and I honestly think it's the only way my wife would be able to bring aboard an exhausted 20 stone man. Whilst others have said risky with ropes etc. in the water, you can winch that no problem.... I think there is a psychological practical side to steering the boat, being in control and doing something that she (the rescuer) will be able to do. I know that she will come back and I'll be watching out for the sling so no matter what I have hope. For her once I've clipped on, knowing she just has to go forward to get me onboard is another thing that's practical for her to do and feel confident in her rescue.

Isn't that what all this gear is about? Confidence in the rescue from both sides?

 

[Poey50]

This looks really good and I honestly think it's the only way my wife would be able to bring aboard an exhausted 20 stone man. Whilst others have said risky with ropes etc. in the water, you can winch that no problem.... I think there is a psychological practical side to steering the boat, being in control and doing something that she (the rescuer) will be able to do. I know that she will come back and I'll be watching out for the sling so no matter what I have hope. For her once I've clipped on, knowing she just has to go forward to get me onboard is another thing that's practical for her to do and feel confident in her rescue.
Isn't that what all this gear is about? Confidence in the rescue from both sides?

We have a good respect for never falling in. We have centralised jack stays, tethers with good Via Ferrata type hooks that are short enough to prevent going overboard and strict rules about when to wear lifejackets and tethers. We have automatic AIS devices in the lifejackets and I have PLB in mine and a knife. We have a handy billy made up ready to deploy with colour codes ends and big labels for quick identification. We have a throwing line in the cockpit. We have an emergency check list for man overboard and we practice. But the only device that I have much confidence for my wife to get me back aboard is that one. She does all the routine low speed manoeuvring with the boat so it plays to her strengths.

The other device that made sense to us is an inflatable danbuoy that is simply picked up and thrown. No seconds are lost in dealing with a release mechanism it just rests prominently in the cockpit with its handle sticking up. It is the first action that either of us would take in order to compensate for not being able to keep eyes on the person in the water.

Force 4 SOS Inflatable Danbuoy | Force 4 Chandlery

 

[Uricanejack]

As an organization we have a significant no of MOB every year. Ironically the only incident I can say the MOB fell, occurred during an MOB drill.
Any time you have an MOB, it’s a bad day.
A number of years ago, We came to a conclusion, MOB incident often resulted in crew injuries. A significant no of those injuries were sustained while trying to get the casualty out the water.
We came to the conclusion. We needed to improve our response, particularly getting the casualty out the water. Without incurring crew injuries.

Demographics ect. Our crews are not bunch of Gung Ho young lads. They tend to be older, long, short, tall and quite a good proportion are women.
Our desired requirement, a relatively small female crew member, be able to get a bigger than average North American out of the water. Without injury. or put it another way a 100 lb girl be able get a 200 lb guy out the water.

So we put a team of people together, to figure it out. Our trainers are trained in Toffino, so we knew, how they do it. We sent them to Oregon to find out how they do it. There recommendations, can be summed up as, Gung Ho young lads. When you figure it out let us know.
USN advice, Parbukle.

We found this was part of the answer, The problem, We couldn’t find anyone who made a fit for purpose piece of Parbukle kit or equipment which actually worked.
What worked best, was our own home made kit, made by crew on board.
Parbukling a casualty into a rib, can be done effectively, with three lengths of non buoyant rope or webbing.

This still left us a problem, they were all different. And awkward.
It did appear to improve things, our crews were drilling and using in practice. injuries appeared to be reduced.
We still wanted to have standard equipment and standard procedure which worked.

It has to be easy to use,
It has to be compact,
It has to be portable, easy to fit when required, removed when not,
It has to provide support to lift an unconscious 6ft plus person horizontal, (onto or into a fairly big rib)
A single small person has to be able to do it without injury.

We have our own upholstery shop. They are ussualy pretty busy fixing upholstery. They also do canvas covers ect. They came up with a workable kit for us.

Own in house kit. Is made off heavy duty net webbing net. 2.5 in wide webbing. Not the fiddley little bits of crap in any of the comercial available versions we tried. we found lighter webbing gets tangled up.
The top or inboard has quick connect hooks to snap onto a grabline.
The neat bit.
It needs to sink, easily so you can get it under and around casualty.
Ours achieves this with a heavy duty Aluminum Bar sown into the outboard end of our webbing net. (Stainless steel was too heavy)
It is stowed, rolled up in a zipped bag, with eyelets to allow the quick connect hooks, to be connected to grabline while still bagged.
To deploy, just unzip.
It rolls out and hangs vertically at the side of the boat.
There is a bridle attached to the Bar. The bridle is not used to lift, its used to pass around the casualty and pull up the a
aluminum bar. Back up out board of the casualty.

The crew member, just rolls up the slack, onto the bar, squatted down with the bar held at waist height.
The crew member stands up. Just lifting with legs alone. The casualty rolls right up on to the pontoon

The 100 lb girl can pull the 200 N American guy out the water without injury.
We have used these for over 10 years. Our injury rates have gone way down.
The guys from Toffino, get them from us.

Could my wife lift me up the side of our 35ft boat, with this bit of kit.
I doubt it, her legs aren’t long enough.
But I am pretty sure she could get me back into our tender.

My personal risk assessment, the most likely time one of us might fall in, would be returning to the boat from the pub.
We also tend to be towing our tender.

 

[Capt Popeye]

My personal risk assessment, the most likely time one of us might fall in, would be returning to the boat from the pub.
We also tend to be towing our tender.

Yes well indeed thats a very HIGH risk sittuation

Perhaps always use a pontoon berth for that operation

Or buy a Bilge Keeler and just put her ashore

Might add that Booze , cold water , night time, dazy mind , the unexpected happening , are a reciept for disaster for any Yachtsman

 

[Roberto]

It seems something like this

MOB Rescue-net – Markus Lifenet

Own in house kit. Is made off heavy duty net webbing net. 2.5 in wide webbing. Not the fiddley little bits of crap in any of the comercial available versions we tried. we found lighter webbing gets tangled up.
The top or inboard has quick connect hooks to snap onto a grabline.
The neat bit.
It needs to sink, easily so you can get it under and around casualty.
Ours achieves this with a heavy duty Aluminum Bar sown into the outboard end of our webbing net. (Stainless steel was too heavy)
It is stowed, rolled up in a zipped bag, with eyelets to allow the quick connect hooks, to be connected to grabline while still bagged.
To deploy, just unzip.
It rolls out and hangs vertically at the side of the boat.
There is a bridle attached to the Bar. The bridle is not used to lift, its used to pass around the casualty and pull up the a
aluminum bar. Back up out board of the casualty.

The crew member, just rolls up the slack, onto the bar, squatted down with the bar held at waist height.
The crew member stands up. Just lifting with legs alone. The casualty rolls right up on to the pontoon

 

[bikedaft]

It seems something like this

MOB Rescue-net – Markus Lifenet

That does look good, cheers. Must try storm jib next time am out, as well.

 

[Uricanejack]

It seems something like this

MOB Rescue-net – Markus Lifenet

Yes, very like what we use. As you can see it works. They did have two people.

 

[capnsensible]

What about your liferaft? Secured by a short painter. Get your mob into raft then transfer to deck. Even if you cant do second bit you can administer first aid and care for your casualty.

Once again, getting that mayday call out as early as possible is, in my opinion, vital.

 

[Uricanejack]

That does look good, cheers. Must try storm jib next time am out, as well.

We find the webbing works. It’s easy to get it to sink under the casualty and when you are bringing the casualty up you are not bringing water up.
Never tried it on a yacht, the technique will lift a casualty no problem. On a sailboat you would have to get the past the stantions.