Yacht v red tanker

[l'escargot]

...He gambled his crews lives and his boat just for a race place...

That's just the point. I don't think he did - and I think there are others on here who share my view. He found himself somewhere he didn't want to be and the combination of events leading up to that are not yet clear. I think the only think that is for sure is that he had no intention of being in the situation that he ended up in and he certainly wasn't relying on power giving way to sail.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

well, I suppose it's wise to avoid Fred Drift...

Ooooh, cool Would that be a thread about anchors or the pink thread that was part of the spinnaker of the yacht that hit the tanker?

.....in a pink haze of any sort of emotion, so I think we should focus on how many pieces of evidence, oops, sorry, spinnaker were recovered from the anchor, whether the shank was bent at all, whether any dolphins were riding seahorses on the bow wave at the time of the incident, and were they ok?

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Fair enough, thats your clearly stated view..

That's just the point. I don't think he did - and I think there are others on here who share my view. He found himself somewhere he didn't want to be and the combination of events leading up to that are not yet clear. I think the only think that is for sure is that he had no intention of being in the situation that he ended up in and he certainly wasn't relying on power giving way to sail.

..I've stated mine, and we are both clearly all year round users of that chunk of Solent, cruising and racing.

I'm content to leave it to the legal/due process now to decide the matter finally as to how the blame for the incident is apportioned.
As has been said earlier in this thread, the ColRegs mud sticks to everyone involved in a collision like this, and some peoples livelihoods/ professional reputations are at stake as a result of the collision.

I will certainly take notice of the final legal decision on the yachts actions in planning my own future passages through the 'Central Solent'+ ABP+QHM areas though ' safety first' is my overriding Rule, racing or not.

The Admiralty Court lawyers managing clerks are probably rubbing their hands with glee and eyeing up emerald/ruby jewellery Yule gifts for the women in their lives in Hatton Garden, hoping it goes all the way to the Lords.

 

[timbartlett]

That's just the point. I don't think he did - and I think there are others on here who share my view. He found himself somewhere he didn't want to be and the combination of events leading up to that are not yet clear. I think the only think that is for sure is that he had no intention of being in the situation that he ended up in and he certainly wasn't relying on power giving way to sail.

Can you delete this post, I can't find anything in it to disagree with...

 

[Poignard]

"Not many dead"

Yacht and ship collide. No lives lost. Matter being investigated. Report forthcomimg. Yawn.

 

[prv]

He gambled his crews lives and his boat just for a race place

That's just the point. I don't think he did

Exactly, and I wish people would stop making the assumption. Crossing in front of the ship would not have improved his race position, it would have disqualified him. It therefore makes no sense to frame this as some kind of testosterone-filled racer cutting a corner in search of glory.

Pete

 

[Spyro]

Exactly, and I wish people would stop making the assumption. Crossing in front of the ship would not have improved his race position, it would have disqualified him. It therefore makes no sense to frame this as some kind of testosterone-filled racer cutting a corner in search of glory.

Pete

Whether it was racing red mist or not you don't just "find yourself" under the bows of something that size.
You see them coming from miles off they are ****in enormous and they don't alter course quickly. Skipper got himself into that position it didn't just happen.

 

[sailorsteve]

It was one looooooooong blast

The sound signal before the 5 shorts was one long 'un.

 

[timbartlett]

The sound signal before the 5 shorts was one long 'un.

Are you sure? Because that would mean that the ship considereditself to be either "A vessel nearing a bend or an area of a channel or fairway where other vessels may be obscured by an intervening obstruction..." or a power driven vessel making way in restricted visibility.

As neither of those appears to be the case, it lends further weight to the idea that the use of incorrect sound signals by the ship might have contributed to the collision -- or at least be a valid mitigating factor.

 

[sailorsteve]

positive, and i reckon it also means "i'm here"

 

[timbartlett]

positive, and i reckon it also means "i'm here"

But it doesn't, does it? The colregs are quite specific about the meaning of one long blast -- and they also explicitly say: Rule 36 Signals to attract attention
If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals that cannot be mistaken for any signal authorised elsewhere in these Rules,
There's a good reason for that. This incident could be an example of it.

 

[Seajet]

Like a lot of others I suspect, I have mixed feelings about this.

If the ship did give a wrong sound signal, yes that can't have helped - but would the racer even have understood it ?

I've met a few racing types who were red-hot on racing rules, but didn't know channel marking buoys; seriously !

One can't help thinking, 'big ship painted bright warning red, travelling at a fair speed, don't try be a smart**** in front of it !'

 

[Poignard]

If the ship did give a wrong sound signal, yes that can't have helped - but would the racer even have understood it ?

If, as has apparently been suggested, the yacht was crewed by the Lords of the Admiralty, one hopes they would be familiar with the sound signals.

 

[l'escargot]

Like a lot of others I suspect, I have mixed feelings about this.

If the ship did give a wrong sound signal, yes that can't have helped - but would the racer even have understood it ?...

But the escort boat would understand it and they would have been in communication with the bridge as well, did it impact on his instructions? What was said by him and his actions have not been made clear. He certainly did not behave in the manner I have previously seen when they challenge a boat in the restricted area. If he believed that a collision was imminent I would have thought he would have stood off and watched, prepared to assist rather than speed off round the blind side of the ship

 

[Seajet]

If, as has apparently been suggested, the yacht was crewed by the Lords of the Admiralty, one hopes they would be familiar with the sound signals.

I wouldn't bet my life on it !

 

[timbartlett]

I've met a few racing types who were red-hot on racing rules, but didn't know channel marking buoys; seriously !

One can't help thinking, 'big ship painted bright warning red, travelling at a fair speed, don't try be a smart**** in front of it !'

Sadly true about the widespread lack of knowledge -- but unfortunately it seems that too many commercial folk assume that theris no point making correct sound signals (or conforming to some of the other colregs) when dealing with yachts because all yotties are ignorant. Not only is that unreasonable and insulting: it is also a vicious circle, because if the only sound signal the average Solent sailor ever hears is five shorts, then the belief that the colregs are just "book learning" or "not what happens in the real world" will continue to gain credibility.

I, for one, do not buy the theory that the skipper was trying to be a smart arse -- that seems to defy all logic. It seems far more likely that -- for reasons we can only guess at -- he found himself in a difficult situation in which there were only two options, and was forced into a hasty decision that turned out to be wrong.

If, as has apparently been suggested, the yacht was crewed by the Lords of the Admiralty, one hopes they would be familiar with the sound signals.

I wouldn't bet my life on it !

Not all RN officers are seamen: the RN also requires engineers, electicians, IT specialists, accountants, lawyers, administrators, catering managers, doctors, dentists and teachers -- to name but a few. But (at least in my day) they were all required to know the colregs before they left Dartmouth. And to the the X-branch (Seamen officers) the Colregs ranked several levels higher than holy writ.

 

[simon barefoot]

Colregs, sound signals, excuses.....
ITS A SODDING HUGE TANKER.....STAY OUT OF ITS WAY!

 

[Jamesuk]

I think the skipper now plays at another sport, last I heard he caused quite a stir at elderlies bowls by rolling his marbles into another lane.