xxxspachers use at home.

[Beneteau381]

This is similar to the one I have in my workshop. The exhaust exits underneath direct from the Chinaspacher inside - I would be surprised if this one pictured was any different. On my one the exhaust vents through a hole in the wall to outside air, dead easy, but once set up not really portable.

The disadvantage is the requirement for a 12v 20a supply, which for me means an old battery and charger running when the heater is on, although once going I would expect quite a few hours without the charger just on the battery, which does give some resilience if there is a power cut, but I have no provision to run the thing in the house, and don't much fancy knocking a 30mm diameter hole for the exhaust in a house wall. I suppose I could sit it on a window ledge and run the house through a partially open window, which would also provide fresh air for the combustion, but also a considerable (possibly -2 kW) draught.

 

[Beneteau381]

As ive said before,the exhaust could be run through a fabricated "heat exchanger" think some 22mm copper pipes silver soldered in a bigger copper pipe, filled with water and pumped around a rad?

 

[ChromeDome]

As ive said before,the exhaust could be run through a fabricated "heat exchanger" think some 22mm copper pipes silver soldered in a bigger copper pipe, filled with water and pumped around a rad?

For what purpose?

Could be a way to heat domestic water by transferring the exhaust heat in an exchanger, but for room heating, the direct hot air from the unit will be more efficient than a radiator.

Or did you mean something different?

 

[ChromeDome]

...

 

[Beneteau381]

For what purpose?

Could be a way to heat domestic water by transferring the exhaust heat in an exchanger, but for room heating, the direct hot air from the unit will be more efficient than a radiator.

Or did you mean something different?

Exhaust heat is wasted heat, so harvest all you can. Thats why combi boilers are now condensing to harvest exhaust heat. 94% efficient. So for example, why not set up a secondary well insulated hot water tank, use the exhaust to heat it partially, then set up a simple solar panel system to harvest solar, then use that to heat the tank water as well. Proper green way to go and save money.
Use direct 5kw of hot air and harvest the waste from the exhaust

 

[wingcommander]

Exhaust heat is wasted heat, so harvest all you can. Thats why combi boilers are now condensing to harvest exhaust heat. 94% efficient. So for example, why not set up a secondary well insulated hot water tank, use the exhaust to heat it partially, then set up a simple solar panel system to harvest solar, then use that to heat the tank water as well. Proper green way to go and save money.
Use direct 5kw of hot air and harvest the waste from the exhaust

Modern combi boilers also have a means of removing the acidic condensate formed in the plastic flue. Your stainless ain't gonna cope to well with excessive condensate if cooled too much

 

[vyv_cox]

Modern combi boilers also have a means of removing the acidic condensate formed in the plastic flue. Your stainless ain't gonna cope to well with excessive condensate if cooled too much

Now that central heating and diesel fuels have such a low sulfur content I don't imagine that acid condensate corrosion is a major problem.

 

[wingcommander]

Now that central heating and diesel fuels have such a low sulfur content I don't imagine that acid condensate corrosion is a major problem.

My experience is mainly natural gas combi CH4 . Generally condensate is between ph 3.5or 4.8 . I have seen it eat away incorrectly installed 22 mm copper pipe in as little as 8 months after installation. Also alarmingly have come across a leaking condensate, dripping onto a 22mm gas feed and causing pin hole leak ,scary distilled water. I admit I haven't tested my chinaspacer exhaust POC ( products of combustion) though I would expect any carbon based fuel ,either liquid solid or gas to have some form of acidic poc . I may be proved wrong though

 

[mil1194]

Don't know UK wide, I think farmers and the like buy it in bulk. I have heard stories of petrol stations having a pump for it but never seen that.

I know of a few garages with red available at the pump - in the Gower and in West Wales area,

 

[NormanS]

I know of at least two Oil Depots that will fill 20 litre containers with red diesel or kerosene. Any quantities.

 

[vyv_cox]

My experience is mainly natural gas combi CH4 . Generally condensate is between ph 3.5or 4.8 . I have seen it eat away incorrectly installed 22 mm copper pipe in as little as 8 months after installation. Also alarmingly have come across a leaking condensate, dripping onto a 22mm gas feed and causing pin hole leak ,scary distilled water. I admit I haven't tested my chinaspacer exhaust POC ( products of combustion) though I would expect any carbon based fuel ,either liquid solid or gas to have some form of acidic poc . I may be proved wrong though

I am intrigued. Do you know the composition of the acid reagent? Carbonic and nitronic are weak organic acids, probably not strong enough to cause the damage you describe. Sulfur is the obvious aggressive ingredient but nowadays there is far less about.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I know of a few garages with red available at the pump - in the Gower and in West Wales area,

Red diesel available at the pump in Wrexham.

 

[gordmac]

Who buys red from a petrol station? They must sell enough to be worthwhile I suppose but hard to see who would buy enough in relatively small quantities.

 

[wingcommander]

I am intrigued. Do you know the composition of the acid reagent? Carbonic and nitronic are weak organic acids, probably not strong enough to cause the damage you describe. Sulfur is the obvious aggressive ingredient but nowadays there is far less about.

I am only going off my experiences in domestic situations, however you may find this information interesting
Managing Condensate for Condensing Boilers.

 

[TSB240]

Who buys red from a petrol station? They must sell enough to be worthwhile I suppose but hard to see who would buy enough in relatively small quantities.

I buy red diesel from the local Texaco. It is cheaper than either Marina diesel or road fuel.
It is always available and not dependent on marina cash flow.
I can buy in either 5 litre, 10 litre,15 litre or 25 litre containers. I just have to show my declaration for use and they take my car registration.
Most of the local boat owners will top up using them rather than bio road diesel.

I managed to get 10 litres of Kerosene yesterday siphoning it from my daughters oil CH tank which had just been brimmed full. I will use that to give the boat heater a good clean hot burn for a couple of days.

I need to find a local heating oil supplier but I would have to pay for it there!

 

[TSB240]

I am intrigued. Do you know the composition of the acid reagent? Carbonic and nitronic are weak organic acids, probably not strong enough to cause the damage you describe. Sulfur is the obvious aggressive ingredient but nowadays there is far less about.

I was involved in creating a product specification for the first development of a gas condensing boiler for the leading UK brand a few years back. Well before 2 Jags Prescott decided everybody should be forced to buy a condensing boiler.

We actually created a protype condensing boiler that was fully approved by British Gas involving ceramics in its construction.

I was adamant that the boilers should be as long lasting as their cast iron predecessors. Our company was a market leader because of the reliability and longevity that our installers and end users appreciated.

Sadly the influx of German manufacturers with their combi boiler designs mean that even their stainless steel heat exchangers are likely to need replacing within a maximum of a 10 year cycle.

The acidity of the condensate is far worse than Acid Rain. Not a problem once it is mixed in with sewar contents as they are predominately alkali.
Condensate is a real problem if it drips onto a copper gas supply pipe or cast Iron drain pipe or gutter OR if it freezes.

The bull printed about condensing boilers really gets me going as most of the existing range of boilers were 80 percent efficient if they had been installed on a correctly sized fully pumped system..

Condensing boilers were fine for new build but as direct replacements for old involved a much bigger investment in rads, pipework and in many cases redecoration for them to achieve the theoretical 15% improvement in efficiency.

Oil condensing boilers are the worst for longevity given the inevitable sulphur content in Kerosene. I know of some that have had heat exchangers replaced on a bi-annual basis and their structural integrity totally compromised within 4 years.

 

[Beneteau381]

Red diesel available at the pump in Wrexham.

Glyndyfrdwy

 

[Beneteau381]

Who buys red from a petrol station? They must sell enough to be worthwhile I suppose but hard to see who would buy enough in relatively small quantities.

Farmers

 

[Beneteau381]

I buy red diesel from the local Texaco. It is cheaper than either Marina diesel or road fuel.
It is always available and not dependent on marina cash flow.
I can buy in either 5 litre, 10 litre,15 litre or 25 litre containers. I just have to show my declaration for use and they take my car registration.
Most of the local boat owners will top up using them rather than bio road diesel.

I managed to get 10 litres of Kerosene yesterday siphoning it from my daughters oil CH tank which had just been brimmed full. I will use that to give the boat heater a good clean hot burn for a couple of days.

I need to find a local heating oil supplier but I would have to pay for it there!

Carrog, from the pump is where I used to buy it

 

[Beneteau381]

Note it has no chimney: Exhaust will be mixed with the hot air outlet and even the best fuel makes it smell. Then there is the CO2 matter...
Must be used in well ventilated areas only.

Probably easier to route the exhaust out (as it is a separate port) from the portable xxxspacher units of which several are offered: