xxxspachers use at home.

vyv_cox

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I was involved in creating a product specification for the first development of a gas condensing boiler for the leading UK brand a few years back. Well before 2 Jags Prescott decided everybody should be forced to buy a condensing boiler.

We actually created a protype condensing boiler that was fully approved by British Gas involving ceramics in its construction.

I was adamant that the boilers should be as long lasting as their cast iron predecessors. Our company was a market leader because of the reliability and longevity that our installers and end users appreciated.

Sadly the influx of German manufacturers with their combi boiler designs mean that even their stainless steel heat exchangers are likely to need replacing within a maximum of a 10 year cycle.

The acidity of the condensate is far worse than Acid Rain. Not a problem once it is mixed in with sewar contents as they are predominately alkali.
Condensate is a real problem if it drips onto a copper gas supply pipe or cast Iron drain pipe or gutter OR if it freezes.

The bull printed about condensing boilers really gets me going as most of the existing range of boilers were 80 percent efficient if they had been installed on a correctly sized fully pumped system..

Condensing boilers were fine for new build but as direct replacements for old involved a much bigger investment in rads, pipework and in many cases redecoration for them to achieve the theoretical 15% improvement in efficiency.

Oil condensing boilers are the worst for longevity given the inevitable sulphur content in Kerosene. I know of some that have had heat exchangers replaced on a bi-annual basis and their structural integrity totally compromised within 4 years.
Thanks for your input. I am surprised there is enough sulphur in domestic kerosene for acid corrosion to be a significant problem. I am very familiar with the problem in marine tankers when slow steaming but their fuel has (had) massive sulfur content by comparison. 5%?

I have a condensing oil boiler,retro-fitted two years ago. It has a plastic exhaust but I know nothing about its internals. Has a good long guarantee though?
 

Gsailor

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I buy red diesel from the local Texaco. It is cheaper than either Marina diesel or road fuel.
It is always available and not dependent on marina cash flow.
I can buy in either 5 litre, 10 litre,15 litre or 25 litre containers. I just have to show my declaration for use and they take my car registration.
Most of the local boat owners will top up using them rather than bio road diesel.

I managed to get 10 litres of Kerosene yesterday siphoning it from my daughters oil CH tank which had just been brimmed full. I will use that to give the boat heater a good clean hot burn for a couple of days.

I need to find a local heating oil supplier but I would have to pay for it there!
I thought red was not available to general public.

My local garage has said so too ( see government paper link). They will only sell to farmers around here.

Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement
 

TSB240

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I thought red was not available to general public.

My local garage has said so too ( see government paper link). They will only sell to farmers around here.

Reform of red diesel and other rebated fuels entitlement
If you read your link it clearly states red diesel is available for pleasure boat use except in "Norn iron"

It is not permitted for use in commercial heating.

It specifically states it is available for houseboat heating.

Your garage is wrong to supply just farmers but it probably makes their life easier as less paperwork to fill out.
 

penfold

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Don't know UK wide, I think farmers and the like buy it in bulk. I have heard stories of petrol stations having a pump for it but never seen that.
Anyone can buy it, but only in bulk and expect questions if you don't have heating that runs off it or run a plant hire business.
 

Slowboat35

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I thought red was not available to general public.

My local garage has said so too ( see government paper link). They will only sell to farmers around here.
Are farmers not part of the "general public"? If not, what are they? They don't have any form of permit to buy red, nor is any such permit required. There is no kind of id to identify a 'farmer'.
If anyone at the oil depot asks I tell them the truth, it is for my tractor. End of conversation. They do apologetically note my car reg (and rightly make a point of doing so) as it is a diesel so doubtless there is some possibility of the Revenue taking a sniff at my filler cap if they are really that co-ordinated and have that much time to squander over a paltry 100l of red. If so they are more than welcome.

Anyone can buy it, but only in bulk and expect questions if you don't have heating that runs off it or run a plant hire business.
Not so.
Anyone can buy it in any quantity. There is no regulation re bulk purchase that I am aware of.
How does/can the vendor know anything about your heating system or your business for heaven's sake? What business is it of theirs? They have to show they've employed due diligence, but if you lie to them it can't be down to them.
"It's for my tractor" is all you need, assuming credible quantities.

Again, re plant hire. Incorrect I'm afraid. As of this spring rented plant must run on white, as I found to my cost last month having returned a mini digger that I'd topped up with red.
Unless the plant is operated on agricultural land (a smallholding perhaps?), a golf course or other sporting (and thus probably commercial enterprise). Is this irrational or what?
But how is the hirer to know where/how his plant is used? He doesn't ask.
He got quite exercised when he found my red in the tank! I was threatened with paying for the tank to be dumped, fuel disposed of, fuel system flushed, new filters etc etc. He was in a real funk that the IR might find a trace of red in his digger.
It seems that even if you hire plant to work on a farm or a golf course you may still need to use white despite the "rules".

The whole system is utterly nuts.
 
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Gsailor

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Are farmers not part of the "general public"? If not, what are they? They don't have any form of permit to buy red, nor is any such permit required. There is no kind of id to identify a 'farmer'.
If anyone at the oil depot asks I tell them the truth, it is for my tractor. End of conversation. They do note my car reg though as it is a diesel so doubtless there is some possibility of the Revenue taking a sniff at my filler cap if they are really that co-ordinated and have that much time to squander over a paltry 100l of red. If so they are more than welcome.

Buy it on the buckshee by the ton and you're probably in another game entirely.


Not so.
Anyone can buy it in any quantity. There is no regulation re bulk purchase that I am aware of.
How does/can the vendor know anything about your heating system or your business for heaven's sake?
"It's for my tractor" is all you need, assuming credible quantities.

Again, re plant hire. Incorrect I'm afraid. As of this spring rented plant must run on white, as I found to my cost last month having returned a mini digger that I'd topped up with red.
Unless the plant is operated on agricultural land (a smallholding perhaps?), a golf course or other sporting (and thus probably commercial enterprise). Is this irrational or what?
But how is the hirer to know where/how his plant is used? He doesn't ask.
He got quite exercised when he found my red in the tank! I was threatened with paying for the tank to be dumped, fuel disposed of, fuel system flushed, new filters etc etc. He was in a real funk that the IR might find a trace of red in his digger.
It seems that even if you hire plant to work on a farm or a golf course you may still need to use white despite the "rules".

The whole system is utterly nuts.
Yes, the country and world is in a bit of a mess.
 

gordmac

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sensible chap, they work, I checked today, my local garages are selling red and kerosene from the pumps, so set up the xxxspacher and cheap fuel and away you go!
If you have mains gas heating that does the job fine I would say doing that would just cost you money. If you have to use an electric heater as well as gas then it might be worthwhile but perhaps finding out, and sorting, why you need additional heat would be a better idea.
 

Beneteau381

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If you have mains gas heating that does the job fine I would say doing that would just cost you money. If you have to use an electric heater as well as gas then it might be worthwhile but perhaps finding out, and sorting, why you need additional heat would be a better idea.
Mymains gas heating costs £1.50 an hour, it heats the whole house and is very inefficient to just heat one hotspot, using one of these costs less than 40p per hour to heat a couple of hotspots. Think of setting a system up, solar to charge a bank of batteries, use with an invertor, grid tie or otherwise and use one of these.
 

Graham376

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Mymains gas heating costs £1.50 an hour, it heats the whole house and is very inefficient to just heat one hotspot, using one of these costs less than 40p per hour to heat a couple of hotspots. Think of setting a system up, solar to charge a bank of batteries, use with an invertor, grid tie or otherwise and use one of these.

Our CH heats the whole bungalow but, with the thermostat in the hall, the lounge was quite often too hot although every rad has a thermostatic valve. Since I've moved the (wireless) stat into the lounge where we spend most time, the boiler runs for shorter periods and the bedroom is cooler, as we like it. With monthly DD only £56 (until May) for elec and gas, hardly worth us spending on alternative heat sources although DD will most likely double at end of contract.
 

TSB240

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Do you not have thermostatic valves on the radiators?
I agree they are a help but......

From my memory most modern combi boilers are using a burner and heat exchanger sized to be capable of producing a reasonable flow of water for a shower. 80 to 100k btu .
This is well in excess of the average heating requirement for most well insulated homes of 45 to 50k btu..

The heat exchanger and burner cannot be efficiently modulated down much more than 30 to 40 percent without reduced boiler efficiency. Easily checked in any boiler specifications as manufacturers have to quote the efficency at minimum and maximum outputs.

Start turning a few rads off and you require modulation in excess of 50 percent even on a well matched system. This can only be achieved by turning the boiler on or off (cycling on a periodic basis) rather than turning the gas down a bit. You are asking it to operate at lower output than its minimum rating.

Add to this most heating engineers would tend to oversize a boiler just in case. Bit like anchors really!

Gas Burners don't like been driven at low gas levels they have a habit of going out initiating flame failure devices and burner lock outs and no heating until you or a call out by a gas engineer can reset your boiler.

This is incredibly wasteful and a combination of these factors could reduce your c/h heating system efficiecy to below 50 percent if you are using your ch to spot heat one or two rooms or radiators.
 

gordmac

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I would think turning radiators off altogether would be a bad idea as you would create cold areas drawing heat away from ones you want warm. Turning down and shutting the door would be better. I still think turning up the one in the room you want warmer is a better idea than installing a diesel heater in that one room.
Sorting draughts and adding insulation would be the first step though, if one area is so bad you need to add 5kw of heat you need to look at sorting that first.
 
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