X-Yachts X-43 - Opinions As A Performance Live-Aboard Cruiser?

[Laser310]

I did a search, as I am sure it has been discussed.., but I could not get any results.

Within this generation of X-yachts, I have only ever been on the X-40 - I liked it, but it is a bit small (for me) as a live-aboard with wife and children/friends as occasional guests. It seems like the X-43 is pretty similar.., just a bit bigger. I am guessing it has similar sailing characteristics..?

I've raced quite a bit on the XP-44,and it's very nice, but they are ~2X the cost. I also like Arcona's but they are somewhat rare on the 2nd hand market, and typically more expensive than comparable X-yachts.

Cruising grounds would be northern Europe, and the Med.

 

[KompetentKrew]

The club I learned to sail with in 2018 has an X-40.

It was very nice and comfortable to cruise in, but build quality seems similar to other AWBs. At one point on our 5-day cruise, taking a step and slightly off-balance in a seaway, the sole of my plimsol brushed caught the cabinetry of the galley and the wood-effect plastic laminate at the end of a sheet of ply came off. A long strip 10mm or 15mm wide, I mean. I think it was the bottom of the cupboard door shown in the photo:

I've sailed an XP of about this length in quite exhilarating conditions, and admire another which is berthed near me at parent.

What boats have you owned / sailed previously?

 

[Laser310]

I've owned only dinghies and one-design keel boats up to 33ft - mostly without any accommodations.

I am a racing navigator, and also do many deliveries - I've sailed on quite a few boats. Mostly they are very nice and larger than what I am contemplating- Gunboats, many Swans, some Oysters..,

As I mentioned, I have been on the X-40, and I have also sailed a lot on an XP-44. I think the X-Yachts in general are quite a bit better than an AWB - certainly the AWB typically does not have the galvanized keel grid of the X-40 and 43. The 44 has a composite grid - to be lighter - but it still looks pretty good. The only boat that one might call an AWB that I know of with the grid is the Salona - the 41, don't know about other salonas.

To me, it's really important that the keel stays on - I think there is no comparison of X-Yachts with say Beneteau, Hanse, Dehler, Bavaria.., and so on

 

[ashtead]

This all surely turns on budget and what available but curious as to why an Arcona might be more ?

 

[Laser310]

This all surely turns on budget and what available but curious as to why an Arcona might be more ?

of course - Budget is a controlling factor.

I typically see the X-43 from € 160-220, where as the Arcona 430 starts at €220 or so, and goes higher.

Certainly there are fewer Arcona's,but i guess the price new was higher and that's the main factor.

 

[dunedin]

These boats are well regarded but not particularly numerous in the U.K. - hence to get more info and owner views might be worth contacting / joining the X Yachts UK Owners Association

 

[kof]

My 2 cents. IMO these types of cruiser racers rarely make for a good cruiser- too much sail area, easily overpowered, very light so parking in a marina and a crosswind is always fun , all the lines led into the front of the cockpit to help the kids trip up, the traveller right in the middle of where you sit. Small tanks for water and fuel etc etc

If you want a racing boat, get a racing boat. If you want to cruise, get a cruiser.

 

[KompetentKrew]

STILA 44 sailing yacht for sale | De Valk Yacht broker

Nice boys at Monnickendam, too.

 

[Laser310]

My 2 cents. IMO these types of cruiser racers rarely make for a good cruiser- too much sail area, easily overpowered, very light so parking in a marina and a crosswind is always fun , all the lines led into the front of the cockpit to help the kids trip up, the traveller right in the middle of where you sit. Small tanks for water and fuel etc etc

If you want a racing boat, get a racing boat. If you want to cruise, get a cruiser.

i agree about the traveler - mostly because having the mainsheet in the cockpit cane be dangerous.

putting the traveler in front of the companionway is an acceptable compromise for a cruising boat - lose a little upwind performance for a good measure of safety.

the other factors you mention i can deal with - sail area in particular. you can always reef.., and it's nice to have it when you need it.

the thing about "performance" boats is they don't need as much diesel - because they sail more; upwind, because they can.., in light air, because they have more easily driven hulls and the sail power...

 

[Laser310]

STILA 44 sailing yacht for sale | De Valk Yacht broker

Nice boys at Monnickendam, too.

That's a nice boat.., but i don't think i could live with all that hi-gloss varnish

I also prefer a "traditional" layout, where the settees can be fitted withe lee cloths - they are the best sea berths.

 

[kof]

I cruised my Beneteau 40.7 twenty years ago. Big main, lots of sail area, likes to heel. Ended up reefing way ahead of time just to keep it comfortable for the kids. Turns out the racer in the cruiser-racer wasn't so fast after all. Also what about roller furling genoa, what about the main? - does it have a bag and lazy jacks so you keep your marriage intact when coming in the dock? What about an opening transom so the kids don't have to do gymnastics up the stern when arriving back at the boat in the dingy in the dark. The list is endless.

Do yourself, your wife and your kids a favour. If you want a liveaboard then focus on a cruiser. If you want to go racing crew on racing boats.

i agree about the traveler - mostly because having the mainsheet in the cockpit cane be dangerous.

putting the traveler in front of the companionway is an acceptable compromise for a cruising boat - lose a little upwind performance for a good measure of safety.

the other factors you mention i can deal with - sail area in particular. you can always reef.., and it's nice to have it when you need it.

the thing about "performance" boats is they don't need as much diesel - because they sail more; upwind, because they can.., in light air, because they have more easily driven hulls and the sail power...

 

[Lucky Duck]

The X34/37/40/43 generation of X boats and Arcona are quite different from a 40.7

Higher ballast ratios, through deck jib furlers, recessed mounting of spray hood, better internal fit out, etc.

 

[kof]

So but they are still a big compromise - they are cruiser-racers which emphasize speed at the expense of comfort.

Look whenever the OP wants to do it's his choice. I just think that any boat with even a sniff of racing in it's DNA invariably makes a poor choice as a cruiser.

Anyway that's my 2 cents.

The X34/37/40/43 generation of X boats and Arcona are quite different from a 40.7

Higher ballast ratios, through deck jib furlers, recessed mounting of spray hood, better internal fit out, etc.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I will admit to not being disinterested as I own a boat from one of the brands being discussed here (and a .7 series First some time back)

However I see features like having a decent sail plan with the efficient sail handing equipment as a positive thing rather than making for a poor choice.

No doubt other boats have greater fuel and water tankage but my boat has an endurance of around 50 hours under motor which is sufficient for my needs.

 

[E39mad]

I like a fast cruising boat but it needs to be stiff under sail as has been mentioned. Have cruised on a First 42s7 with the heavier lead keel (std was cast iron) and it proved a great boat to sail especially in the Med.

Not all X-Yachts are designed as cruiser racers - here's a cruising 42 footer:

2009 X-Yachts Xc 42 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

 

[Laser310]

I like a fast cruising boat but it needs to be stiff under sail as has been mentioned. Have cruised on a First 42s7 with the heavier lead keel (std was cast iron) and it proved a great boat to sail especially in the Med.

Not all X-Yachts are designed as cruiser racers - here's a cruising 42 footer:

2009 X-Yachts Xc 42 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

I like that boat - I was drooling over the photos a few days ago - certainly it would be a great liveaboard for a few months. It's a bit more expensive than what I was looking at., and not VAT paid...

I just am afraid I would get annoyed at the sailing performance with that keel, and bulbous underbody - it looks awful... I would have to completely re-calibrate my expectations and sense of how a "good" yacht sails. They have polar curves on the X-yachts website - looks like it tacks through >90deg in light winds. I would have to learn to love it, to not regret the purchase.

I work a lot with polars - manufacturers polars are always optimistic...

 

[E39mad]

A live-aboard especially with kids has to do many things well and sailing ability whilst important may not be as critical as you think.

A fuller underwater section should mean that it copes well with all the extra weight that you put on board and is more likely to float to it's designed waterline.

A shallower draft will allow you into harbours (particularly Northern Europe) that others cannot get into or closer to the beach to drop the kids off or anchor in more sheltered water.

It's all a compromise - just need to find the boat which best suits your priorities. Personally I'd like a lifting keel, fewer cabins than most and more storage. Not many choices when you narrow that down.

 

[Laser310]

A live-aboard especially with kids

My children are adults - no grand children even on the most distant horizon...

Personally I'd like a lifting keel, fewer cabins than most and more storage. Not many choices when you narrow that down.

I really like the look of the French/Dutch aluminum cruisers with lifting or swinging keels. I did a transatlantic passage on a ~70ft french built aluminum yacht. Aluminum give tremendous confidence when 1000 miles from land.

 

[flaming]

I see the forum's normal distrust of anything fast is alive and well!

From the sound of it, you're a little like me in that even when not racing the satisfaction of sailing a good boat well is worth just as much as a bit more comfort in harbour. My dad had a Dufour 40 and I thought that to be about perfect in terms of the comfort/ performance compromise for longish term cruising. The 44 of the same era was also a fabulous boat, but well under your budget so probably a bit long in the tooth for your search.

With a budget of £200k and a preference for fast boats, have you considered the Pogos? The 1250 is a similar size... Or is that a step too far down the performance road?
Boats like the Elan E5 are a step back towards comfort from Pogo, but if you're looking at X-Yachts you may have opinions of the build quality.

Certainly a fun search!

 

[Laser310]

have you considered the Pogos? The 1250 is a similar size

I was on a 12.50 on the dock next to me at the C-600, just for a tour, not a sail.

I liked it - that is probably more performance than I will end up with, not less. The feeling below is a little more like camping than say the X-40, 43 series. The Pogo may not have quite the upwind angles as an X-43, but I'm sure it is much faster all around.

I think you get how I feel about the performance - it is a kind of aesthetic need for me. I'm not saying I need full race performance - an X-43 would be fine. I can imagine myself helming that upwind in 12kts with a big smile on my face.

In contrast, I have sailed 1000's of ocean miles on an Oyster 485. It's a lovely yacht: solid, comfortable, safe, and even good looking for the type and vintage. But; try to sail one upwind in light to moderate winds.., it is hugely frustrating, and makes one want to just turn the motor on. I couldn't live with it.

I wonder if the XC 42 wouldn't be similar...