Wiring in a generator

[Bouba]

My saga of installing an Onan 6 generator has descend from farce to madness, some I will explain later but I first need the forum’s collective knowledge on the following.
Our mechanic, who quoted us for installation and is now almost finished, announced that we need an electrician as he can’t wire things and, of course, it has to be a marine electrician.
So we asked our local capitainerie who put us on to a guy who then took a look at the boat and said he needs to order some parts. €1400 from Beneteau!
The only electrical part that I can see that we need is something like this


Which is about €400 even in France, and while I appreciate you need wires and connectors etc, this Beneteau kit is well over priced.
He insists that if we don’t do it his way then the boat will not be legal or insurable. The device stops two 240 volt live feeds going into your boat at the same time (if you had your generator on while you plugged into shore power)
I prefer something like this



This would make it impossible to have two feeds at the same time
And I can get one from China for €12



What say you all?

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

€12 from China is the way to go. Employ a domestic sparky if you don't fancy it yourself.
Be sure to that the Genny has some way to tie the ac out to your sockets earth. Best is a neutral/earth link at the genny, it might have its own arrangement either neutral/earth or mid-point/earth, both will do nicely.

 

[jrudge]

You are correct.


The first one seems to have a priority source and I assume manages the change over automatically.

Simplistically I imagine if mains is present it wins. If not it defaults to gen.

The mechanical switch is dual pole so the live and neutral are both switched and cannot sent voltage between the two inputs.

The Fairline method uses a change over relay which is a less flash version of the first box. Switching is done by a low power switch which might be easier to place in the cabin depending on your electrical layout.

Do check once wired in with a volt meter that the shore power socket is indeed dead when the generator is running.

 

[Boat2016]

€12 from China is the way to go. Employ a domestic sparky if you don't fancy it yourself.
Be sure to that the Genny has some way to tie the ac out to your sockets earth. Best is a neutral/earth link at the genny, it might have its own arrangement either neutral/earth or mid-point/earth, both will do nicely.

Most domestic sparkys wouldnt know where to start on a boat, get someone who at least understands hosts and their systems. Also buy good quality parts that have a chance of lasting and steer clear of cheap chinese rubbish that probably doesn’t even meet the standards.

 

[matthewriches]

Either a changeover as per the 1 - 0 - 2 switch or similar will be fine. The main criteria is that it is rated for the voltage and current as well as it being a break before make so as to avoid any fireworks!

 

[Bouba]

Either a changeover as per the 1 - 0 - 2 switch or similar will be fine. The main criteria is that it is rated for the voltage and current as well as it being a break before make so as to avoid any fireworks!

Matthew, that’s the first time I have heard of that, thanks. I did some research and found that rotational switches using Make before Break is mostly used for sound speakers and the one in the picture had a ‘L’ and an ‘R’ so I’m a bit suspicious.
However there was no information in the eBay listing about Break before Make or Make before Break. Now I know I could test it if I was a bit cleverer but how is it possible to have a Make before Break if there is a ‘0’ in between ?

 

[matthewriches]

If there is a 0 in between then it logically should be break before make but that depends on the Chinese spec and the quality of the contacts for arguments sake.

I’d check with a multimeter or low voltage power source first as 2 supplies joining before harmonising is not a pretty sight!

Matthew, that’s the first time I have heard of that, thanks. I did some research and found that rotational switches using Make before Break is mostly used for sound speakers and the one in the picture had a ‘L’ and an ‘R’ so I’m a bit suspicious.
However there was no information in the eBay listing about Break before Make or Make before Break. Now I know I could test it if I was a bit cleverer but how is it possible to have a Make before Break if there is a ‘0’ in between ?

 

[Assassin]

You have to be very careful with Chinese parts as some are excellent while some are pure crap, you need recommendations to which are good and which aren't as many electrical items from over there use the same contact arrangements which are stacked and bolted together, but in different ways.

 

[Portofino]

Bouba
Contact theses guys they speak EN

https://www.lyvio-electricite-marine06.com


Not sure how your existing 220 v shore power is currently gauged , but you need a 220v volt gauge and an indicator led for the geny or both 220 v sources .
Our” geny - O - shore “ switch also is guaged and Led ,d - so I can see the 220 v

Interesting on geny when you turn an appliance on you see a slight flutter in the needle around 220 usually accompanies a deeper engine note - guess the thing is working a bit harder ?

Thinking about it that box ^^^ recommended by the sparky €1400 ish is to stop your shore P IN socket from becoming live .
Remember under the cap they are Male lugs .Perhaps there’s some EU Brussels laws governing installations theses days .

Anyhow a break before make ; 1-0-2 switch placed between the shore plug and AC control board should work .

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

It kinda tickles me, all this "don't buy cheap Chinese". The reputable, vastly more expensive suppliers you are happy to purchase from do buy cheap Chinese.

 

[Boat2016]

It kinda tickles me, all this "don't buy cheap Chinese". The reputable, vastly more expensive suppliers you are happy to purchase from do buy cheap Chinese.

Chinese is not a problem where it is made to a standard, cheaply copied stuff can be dangerous, especially where they copy the certification as well.

 

[Bouba]

Bouba
Contact theses guys they speak EN

https://www.lyvio-electricite-marine06.com


Not sure how your existing 220 v shore power is currently gauged , but you need a 220v volt gauge and an indicator led for the geny or both 220 v sources .
Our” geny - O - shore “ switch also is guaged and Led ,d - so I can see the 220 v

Interesting on geny when you turn an appliance on you see a slight flutter in the needle around 220 usually accompanies a deeper engine note - guess the thing is working a bit harder ?

Thinking about it that box ^^^ recommended by the sparky €1400 ish is to stop your shore P IN socket from becoming live .
Remember under the cap they are Male lugs .Perhaps there’s some EU Brussels laws governing installations theses days .

Anyhow a break before make ; 1-0-2 switch placed between the shore plug and AC control board should work .

I’ll call them first thing Monday morning, if they can’t come to see me I’m hoping to attend the great raftup on the thirtieth

 

[superheat6k]

I doubt there will be any questions of quality from this supplier ...

Switch 3P s 3 position: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-switches/2225964/

Operator: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-switch-accessories/3500840/

£24 + vat

 

[volvopaul]

I cannot believe that the average tech cannot wire up a simple 2 way switch , all you need isn’t a multi meter to work out which wire goes where , ,buy the switch from Fischer panda or RS components.

I f he’s not sure on how to wire that up ice be looking at his work.

 

[Rocksteadee]

Don’t touch anything that you buy from China, with a perverbial barge pole even if it is insulated.
Big companies may supply Chinese good but they have done their own quality testing and have a traceable history.
Was going to suggest RS, but superheat beat me to it and saved me the trouble of looking it up.
I have one of these and it is a break before make with a mid possision acting as an interlock

 

[luptonj]

Any Electrician should be we able to handle this, it's a relatively standard domestic setup to have a backup generator and they have the same requirement to stop making the mains powerlines live.
Also any domestic solar installation has a similar but different issues, where they need to turn off the solar supply if the mains drops off.

All they are installing is a switch, whether automatic or not.
The one thing they won't be used to is getting access to wiring etc. So might be worth doing the dismantling before they arrive as they'll be more used to a hammer and chisel than carefully removing panels etc.

 

[Portofino]

I’ll call them first thing Monday morning, if they can’t come to see me I’m hoping to attend the great raftup on the thirtieth

Great hope to meet up on the 30 th
If you are “ here “ Then Antibes is a short 1 hr hop or 15 mins for me
You can moor here for a few hours FOC .
It’s 2 min walk to Lyvio - was thinking on the Tue you could “T up “a tech to fit the correct bit
Just a thought
View attachment 72154
It’s just straight on past the fuel pontoon .We use it often no hassle

 

[Bouba]

Great hope to meet up on the 30 th
If you are “ here “ Then Antibes is a short 1 hr hop or 15 mins for me
You can moor here for a few hours FOC .
It’s 2 min walk to Lyvio - was thinking on the Tue you could “T up “a tech to fit the correct bit
Just a thought
View attachment 72154
It’s just straight on past the fuel pontoon .We use it often no hassle

Thanks for that Porto. I contacted Lyvio and am waiting for them to ring me back, but I’ll be surprised if they call back today what with the post World Cup party!

 

[Bouba]

I cannot believe that the average tech cannot wire up a simple 2 way switch , all you need isn’t a multi meter to work out which wire goes where , ,buy the switch from Fischer panda or RS components.

I f he’s not sure on how to wire that up ice be looking at his work.

I thought it was strange that he didn’t want to wire it himself but ironically the electrician who did inspect my boat said (unprompted) that it was a good installation. The mechanic also serviced the engine and looked organized and thorough but until it’s up and working I’m keeping my fingers crossed !

 

[Bouba]

I doubt there will be any questions of quality from this supplier ...

Switch 3P s 3 position: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-switches/2225964/

Operator: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-switch-accessories/3500840/

£24 + vat

Thanks for the link. To be safe I’ve asked them if it’s Break before Make