Windlass only works if engine running

[Irish Rover]

On my new to me Leopard 43PC, by design, the windlass only works if the port engine is running. OK, I understand the windlass draws a big amount of current from the batteries and it's good practice to only use it when an engine is running but I find it unusual the builder imposes this on us. There will be times you may want to put out or take in a meter or so of chain and it seems overkill to have to start an engine. Am I missing something?

 

[Tranona]

Hangover from the old days when battery capacity was often limited. No doubt you can get a knowledgeable sparky to disable the interlock.

 

[jwilson]

There is usually a way to alter the relay/control box settings to allow the windlass to work without the engine running.

 

[Stemar]

Is there a VSR in the circuit? If so, a bypass switch would solve your problem.

Alternatively, are the windlass controls powered by the "ignition" switch?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Is there a VSR in the circuit? If so, a bypass switch would solve your problem.

Alternatively, are the windlass controls powered by the "ignition" switch?

If that were the case, it might work with the ignition on, rather than having to actually start. You’ve tried that, Mr Rover?

 

[Roberto]

Usually it's a sort of protection from inattentive crews in bareboat charters

 

[Baggywrinkle]

My last boat did that, it's to stop charter customers hauling up all the chain on just the battery ..... I re-wired the thing but can't remember for the life of me how.

I wanted the choice to be able to sail off an anchorage without the engine running, and the choice to haul up the anchor with a broken engine if necessary.

 

[KLBH]

It's also a added safety feature, without the engine running you have a single point of failure. I.e. if the flimsy micro switch that you press to raise or lower the anchor fails, the anchor can operate even if you are not on the boat, I have seen this happen twice, one was lucky as the anchor payed out, the other not so lucky as it lifted the anchor. In the later case the owner was ashore but did see his boat drifting away and managed to catch it. I have fitted an override switch in the sail locker for the odd occasion I want to operate the anchor without engine, it's normally left that the engine has to be running though.

 

[Stemar]

My windlass relay is wired directly to the battery via an isolation switch. The controls are fed from the same switch. The isolator is off unless I'm using the windlass. This allows me to use the windlass without the engine running but, knowing this is a bad idea, I'm not going to do it except in an emergency. I don't have to worry about other people being brainless. (I can manage that very nicely on my own)

 

[PaulRainbow]

This is common on French production boats, pain in the bum, more things to go wrong etc.

Typical setup varies, so you'll need to get your multimeter out. First thing, determine if it's the main power that's interrupted, or the control circuit (foot switches, panel switches, remotes etc.

Some systems interrupt the main positive supply by fitting a heavy duty relay (usually relatively close to the windlass), this relay is triggered by the alternator excitation terminal. Check that there is power at the isolator output terminal (or battery, there is no isolator) then check at the contactor. If the input isn't live, start at the windlass isolator (or battery) and work your way towards the windlass contactor (relay pack). Check for power at every point of connection. You should come to the heavy duty relay. Applying a positive supply to the positive coil wire should close the relay and confirm you're in the right place. To do this, disconnect the coil wire and make a temporary connection between the main input terminal (from the isolator) to the coils positive terminal (where you just disconnected the wire).

If you have the above system, don't bypass the relay if there isn't an isolator. Just find the other end of the coil positive wire, disconnect it and re-route it to a switch. In order to use the windlass, turn the switch on, turn it off when you're finished. If there is an isolator you can still leave the relay in place, or you can bypass it, remove or insulate the coil wire and then fit a switch in the supply to the operating switches, keep this off when not using the windlass to prevent accidental activation.

If you don't have the above system the supply to the switches must have a relay in it, triggered by the alternator again. If this is the case you can bypass the relay, remove or insulate the coil wire (from the alternator) and fit a switch, again, keep this off when not using the windlass to prevent accidental activation.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

It's also a added safety feature, without the engine running you have a single point of failure. I.e. if the flimsy micro switch that you press to raise or lower the anchor fails, the anchor can operate even if you are not on the boat, I have seen this happen twice, one was lucky as the anchor payed out, the other not so lucky as it lifted the anchor. In the later case the owner was ashore but did see his boat drifting away and managed to catch it. I have fitted an override switch in the sail locker for the odd occasion I want to operate the anchor without engine, it's normally left that the engine has to be running though.

That's what my last boat had as standard, there was a switch on the boat control panel for the anchor windlass which had to be on or it didn't work - and we only switched it on when we used the windlass and switched it off when we were finished.

To have a scenario where the windlass came on by itself, it needed two failures simultaneously - a short in the switch panel which enabled the winch, and a short in the remote control wiring which controlled the winch - that made the odds of it operating with no-one on board insignificant compared to being collected by another drifting boat, stolen, or dragging my own anchor.

 

[Irish Rover]

This is common on French production boats, pain in the bum, more things to go wrong etc.

Typical setup varies, so you'll need to get your multimeter out. First thing, determine if it's the main power that's interrupted, or the control circuit (foot switches, panel switches, remotes etc.

Some systems interrupt the main positive supply by fitting a heavy duty relay (usually relatively close to the windlass), this relay is triggered by the alternator excitation terminal. Check that there is power at the isolator output terminal (or battery, there is no isolator) then check at the contactor. If the input isn't live, start at the windlass isolator (or battery) and work your way towards the windlass contactor (relay pack). Check for power at every point of connection. You should come to the heavy duty relay. Applying a positive supply to the positive coil wire should close the relay and confirm you're in the right place. To do this, disconnect the coil wire and make a temporary connection between the main input terminal (from the isolator) to the coils positive terminal (where you just disconnected the wire).

If you have the above system, don't bypass the relay if there isn't an isolator. Just find the other end of the coil positive wire, disconnect it and re-route it to a switch. In order to use the windlass, turn the switch on, turn it off when you're finished. If there is an isolator you can still leave the relay in place, or you can bypass it, remove or insulate the coil wire and then fit a switch in the supply to the operating switches, keep this off when not using the windlass to prevent accidental activation.

If you don't have the above system the supply to the switches must have a relay in it, triggered by the alternator again. If this is the case you can bypass the relay, remove or insulate the coil wire (from the alternator) and fit a switch, again, keep this off when not using the windlass to prevent accidental activation.

Thanks. That's all a bit above my pay grade but I'll save it for when my son visits again in late autumn.

 

[thinwater]

In fact, if you motor up to the anchor, or if the wind is very light, the power draw is minimal, no where near the peak draw. You really should only be near peak for a few moments.

Disconnect the interlock and then be smart.

 

[Beneteau381]

On my new to me Leopard 43PC, by design, the windlass only works if the port engine is running. OK, I understand the windlass draws a big amount of current from the batteries and it's good practice to only use it when an engine is running but I find it unusual the builder imposes this on us. There will be times you may want to put out or take in a meter or so of chain and it seems overkill to have to start an engine. Am I missing something?

My two Beneteaus had/have a relay powered by the alternator when the engine is running. I have a frig wire tied to the relay for use if necessary.

 

[NBs]

Hi,

You should never use a winch without the power provided by the engine, as you risk the relay being welded to the low current. Maybe I'm being too cautious.

Nbs

 

[Neeves]

Based on having owned a 38' cat.

If you use one engine then at low speeds you will simply go round in circles. Thinking you can develop control, under sail, in a crowded anchorage without both engines available is madness. If you need to take in, or put out a few meters of chain - do it by hand or use the manual operation common to virtually all windlass.

We would always have both engines running, in neutral, entering any anchorage and be able the engage gear when necessary. We would similarly have both engines running when departing an anchorage - in both cases its easier when shorthanded - and it reduces stress on the battery bank. Similarly we would always have the main set until at anchor and before lifting an anchor.

I cannot think of much justification for not have the engines running though to us it was not demanded by windlass wiring but simply what we considered was good seamanship.

The idea of being a purist and sailing to anchor - is fine in a large empty anchorage (and good practice). Real life suggests that considering the nearby yachts and the ability of plans to go pear shaped (what are you going to do if the anchor fouls) then there is a reason to have auxiliary diesels and use them.



Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Ah!

Things never go pear shaped for you





Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

As always one can think of arguments both ways. While having the engine running makes sense if anchoring or weighing anchor, but a common situation in the Med is anchoring stern to a quay using the anchor. At night after return from ashore it is good to slacken the stern lines and haul the boat forward using the windlass. Bit of a faff to start the engine just for this. not doubt others can think of similar situations when having the windlass (and bow thruster) independent of the engine running.

 

[PaulRainbow]

As always one can think of arguments both ways. While having the engine running makes sense if anchoring or weighing anchor, but a common situation in the Med is anchoring stern to a quay using the anchor. At night after return from ashore it is good to slacken the stern lines and haul the boat forward using the windlass. Bit of a faff to start the engine just for this. not doubt others can think of similar situations when having the windlass (and bow thruster) independent of the engine running.

I almost always have the engine running to deploy or retrieve the anchor, but as you say, if i wanted to let a few metres of chain out i wouldn't start the engine.

For me, a key reason to have independent control over the windlass is in case of emergency. They may be occasions when you need to drop anchor in an emergency, i want to just drop it, i don't want to mess around staring the engines. What about if the reason for the emergency is that the engine has just failed and you can't sail, can't get the sails up quickly, or you are a motor boat.

 

[NormanS]

There's no way that I'm a sailing purist. In fact my boat, as a long keeled deck saloon ketch, is probably best described as a motor sailer. However I take great delight in anchoring under sail, but then often our anchorages are far from the madding crowd. I don't think that that constitutes bad seamanship. I do like to sail away from the anchor, but to be honest, usually but not always, use the engine.
When anchoring or letting out more chain, I (or rather my wife) simply uses the windlass clutch, without any need for electricity. Gravity works for us.
I should add that I can use the windlass without the engine.