Will a Garmin GPS Sensor work with an aging Raymarine Chartplotter/MFD

[ritchyp]

I have an old Garmin Colour Chart Plotter that is at least 20 years old. The Mushroom type sensor is mounted at the stern above the pullpit and the coax cable is routed up to the chart table where the Old Garmin Plotter is. I have a Raymarine E90W with two mounting positions, either above the chart table or above the binnacle where it is more use to me. The data & power cable is double ended and it has a open section for access to the data wires for Nmea 0183, Seatalk and Seatalk NG. There is also an antenna socket that is currently not in use.
The e90 GPS is not connected and by checking the wiring it is getting its position via the VHF-DSC and switching the VHF off causes the e90w to lose its position so that is confirmed.
I would prefer that the e90w was receiving GPS directly from the satellites so if I knew it would work, I would change the plug on the GPS cable coming from the Garmin sensor and plug it into the e90w's socket. Even better, could I buy a GPS antenna splitter and have the Old Garmin plotter AND the e90w connected to the GPS sensor.

I fear that the answer is no or else the previous owner would have already done it and Raymarine kit doesn't normally play well with other brands of marine tech.

 

[B27]

GPS antennas with coax cable connection generally have a small amplifier built in.
Old ones often fail.
The receiver puts 3 to 5 V DC on the coax to power it.
You can buy a new gps antenna for a few pounds.
Bear in mind that the 'magnetic' ones intended to go on a car roof may need to be on a metal sheet base for best performance.
I found a 5 inch disc of ali sheet worked well.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have an old Garmin Colour Chart Plotter that is at least 20 years old. The Mushroom type sensor is mounted at the stern above the pullpit and the coax cable is routed up to the chart table where the Old Garmin Plotter is. I have a Raymarine E90W with two mounting positions, either above the chart table or above the binnacle where it is more use to me. The data & power cable is double ended and it has a open section for access to the data wires for Nmea 0183, Seatalk and Seatalk NG. There is also an antenna socket that is currently not in use.
The e90 GPS is not connected and by checking the wiring it is getting its position via the VHF-DSC and switching the VHF off causes the e90w to lose its position so that is confirmed.
I would prefer that the e90w was receiving GPS directly from the satellites so if I knew it would work, I would change the plug on the GPS cable coming from the Garmin sensor and plug it into the e90w's socket. Even better, could I buy a GPS antenna splitter and have the Old Garmin plotter AND the e90w connected to the GPS sensor.

I fear that the answer is no or else the previous owner would have already done it and Raymarine kit doesn't normally play well with other brands of marine tech.

You are correct, the answer is no, you cannot use the old Garmin GPS with the E90W.

You can, however, buy NMEA 0183 GPS and connect it to the E90W and the Garmin, without need for a splitter.

Something like this will do the job, look for the best price:

Marine Universal GPS Receiver Boat Yacht Antenna RS232 Serial NMEA0183 4800 | eBay

 

[ritchyp]

You are correct, the answer is no, you cannot use the old Garmin GPS with the E90W.

You can, however, buy NMEA 0183 GPS and connect it to the E90W and the Garmin, without need for a splitter.

Something like this will do the job, look for the best price:

Marine Universal GPS Receiver Boat Yacht Antenna RS232 Serial NMEA0183 4800 | eBay

Oddly enough, I spotted that on ebay earlier today. My issue is that i have already torn the boat apart to run all the cables up to the cockpit coming for a wind instrument and a Garmin Multi-display. Head linings down large holes drilled as the DeviceNet connectors are so huge. I have only just got it all back together. The old garmin chart plotter still works and you can see it acquiring the satellites. It has an nmea 0183 twist and lock connector and cable which is open ended but no longer connected to anything since i removed the dataline black box hub which fed all the old instruments. The brown and blue wires are the nmea data wires, maybe I can use something to get GPS data from that. it is useful to have a spare plotter at the chart table sometimes so i was going to get a bi directional N2K to 0183 converter so that it would receive depth etc. from the Garmin stuff or perhaps send GPS and SOG to the garmin instruments. I have a STNG backbone joined and when i have bought a 5m STNG cable the e90w will connect to the netework at the STNG end which is the Raymarine auto pilot system. EV1, ACU100, P70s.

 

[Refueler]

Surely the VHF is on all time you are active on boat ? Why would you switch off VHF when sailing ?

Anyway - there are many GPS antenna that you can add to your plotter .... small chip versions no bigger than a 20p piece with 32 ch's ..... or you can buy rail mounted job ...
As long as your boat is not steel - the chip version will work inside cabin ... I've used them to update non GPS DSC VHF's as example.

Have a scroll through this lot ....

gps antenna - Buy gps antenna with free shipping | Banggood Shopping UK

The only consideration really is the power to one ... but that's sorted by using a BEC ... you tap into the 12v supply to the unit you want to add it to ... that tapped power goes to a BEC which then reduces the voltage to 5v or whatever you need. Just put BEC 5v .... or BEC 3.3v into search and you will find plenty ...

 

[ritchyp]

Surely the VHF is on all time you are active on boat ? Why would you switch off VHF when sailing ?

Anyway - there are many GPS antenna that you can add to your plotter .... small chip versions no bigger than a 20p piece with 32 ch's ..... or you can buy rail mounted job ...
As long as your boat is not steel - the chip version will work inside cabin ... I've used them to update non GPS DSC VHF's as example.

Have a scroll through this lot ....

gps antenna - Buy gps antenna with free shipping | Banggood Shopping UK

The only consideration really is the power to one ... but that's sorted by using a BEC ... you tap into the 12v supply to the unit you want to add it to ... that tapped power goes to a BEC which then reduces the voltage to 5v or whatever you need. Just put BEC 5v .... or BEC 3.3v into search and you will find plenty ...

Thanks Refueler. Yes I always have the VHF on but turned it off when alongside and discovered that My plotter is getting it position from the VHF. The 15 wire RS422 Nmea 0183 connector coming from MA 500 TR AIS linked to it the has pins 2,3,4,5 connected to the E90w on the correct colour wires and pins 7,8,9,10 are supposed to transmit AIS data to the e90 but its not working Ive checked the wires and the connections and the baud rate on port 2 38000 but still nothing. The e90w is sending out data packets but receiving zero so I have given up for the time being, Until I finish off the whole network.

I saw your post about the NMEAWIFI 2,3&4 boxes being made by the Portuguese chap. Id like to buy the Mark 4 when it is available as a built unit and not a BYO kit. I could link all the old 0183 stuff with that and and use a bi directional nmea 1 to nmea 2 converter.

 

[Refueler]

Yes the NMEA unit I linked to is a great piece of gear and I too plan to buy the '4' once he returns. I have the older NMEA2WiFi unit and it works a treat.

Its easy enough to add one of those tiny modules to a VHF / Plotter .... and it doesn't need to have cable running to pushpit rail etc.

 

[ritchyp]

Surely the VHF is on all time you are active on boat ? Why would you switch off VHF when sailing ?

Anyway - there are many GPS antenna that you can add to your plotter .... small chip versions no bigger than a 20p piece with 32 ch's ..... or you can buy rail mounted job ...
As long as your boat is not steel - the chip version will work inside cabin ... I've used them to update non GPS DSC VHF's as example.

Have a scroll through this lot ....

gps antenna - Buy gps antenna with free shipping | Banggood Shopping UK

The only consideration really is the power to one ... but that's sorted by using a BEC ... you tap into the 12v supply to the unit you want to add it to ... that tapped power goes to a BEC which then reduces the voltage to 5v or whatever you need. Just put BEC 5v .... or BEC 3.3v into search and you will find plenty ...

Hey Reueler,

I bought one of the GPS modules from Banggood. It is in fact a Beitian BK-252Q GPS Module With QMC5883 Compass. There were 2 factors involved in my choice of Module.
1. It uses NMEA and it also has a built in Compass, plus it is compatible with GPS, GLONASS, GALILEO and more.....
2. Dont spend a lot on it as it may be a total waste of money and at this point, I do not have a Clue What-so Ever!! but I thought it was worth a try!

I looked for a manual but the only thing I found was a Data sheet in PDF, which I downloaded. I don't even know what software to use to change any of the default preferences.

I would not know where to start. Sure I could put 5 volts into it and connect the wire from pin 1 to an NMEA input on my Raymarine e90W and set that port to 34800 baud rate but I cant see it being that easy.....:/

Could you give me some advice or pointers please. I feel a bit overwhelmed to make an understatement.

I have no idea if this thread is still active but its only 5 or 6 months old so I should think so.

TIA Ritchy

 

[Refueler]

They really are that simple ..... you don't need to configure anything other than the baud rate the unit receiving the data uses ..

I have fitted many of these straight out of box to VHF's / plotters with a 5V BEC taking power from the 12v into the unit .. just connect GND and NMEA data wires ...

Oh - and just for the record ... I have received my NMEA4WiFi unit yesterday .... so once weather warms up a bit - that will be fitted replacing the NMEA2WiFi unit - that will go back to my other boat ..

 

[ritchyp]

They really are that simple ..... you don't need to configure anything other than the baud rate the unit receiving the data uses ..

I have fitted many of these straight out of box to VHF's / plotters with a 5V BEC taking power from the 12v into the unit .. just connect GND and NMEA data wires ...

Oh - and just for the record ... I have received my NMEA4WiFi unit yesterday .... so once weather warms up a bit - that will be fitted replacing the NMEA2WiFi unit - that will go back to my other boat ..

Yes, Its been a wee bit chilly and windy of late. I live an hour's drive from the boat so I pop down every other weekend. Just having the sails valeted and repaired and replacing jib sheets and halyards amongst other things.

So you think it will plug and play! The Plotter has Nmea IN Positive and negative and OUT Positive & Negative. The GPS chip has just serial data input RX and serial data output TX so no polarity, Im a bit unsure which wires to connect as I wouldnt expect send data to the GPS module. The chip also has a built in compass that Compass SCL IN on pin 5 and Compass SDA out on pin 6. Not sure what to do with these? I thought perhaps that I wouldnt be able to use the compass as it has separate input and output but when I Did a search on the subject, something came up on Reddit saying they should be connected so you will know which direction you are pointing in.

Any thoughts?

 

[Refueler]

You should be able to ignore the Compass connections ... these Chips are designed for Drones - where we have direction / position etc and often can set Return to Home ...

The NMEA should pair with the GND connection which is also the -ve wire of the power ... those two will give the required data stream.

NMEA out to your plotter or whatever you need GPS to :
Pin 1 for Data out
Pin 3 for GND

Power (5v) to the chip using a 12v to 5v BEC :
Pin 3 for GND (-ve)
Pin 4 for +ve

Forget the rest .. you will not be able to read the Compass output unless you have a Flight Controller to decode it and then send it via Video link ... there are other ways - but for now ... the above should do you.

 

[ritchyp]

That sounds so simple! It makes me feel like smiling In fact!

I can't wait to try it out.

Just one more question Refueler. The Plotter - Raymarine e90w currently gets its position from the iComm VHF-DSC and the iComm AIS next to it. I get position and heading but I have never been able to get it to display the AIS contacts on the Plotter screen. I have tried absolutely everything! Position and heading is all I get and that is using NMEA 0183 @ 34800 baud.. I do need to get the AIS targets displayed on the plotter when we head off to the Med in the Summer, even if I have to buy another AIS unit.

Now the plotter can use GPS but the Icon of the Earth has a red cross over it and if I go into the GPS page it says No GPS found so currently its a function and a page that does nothing. I am hoping that adding the new GPS module will activate this and it will show it acquiring the satellites etc.

Something has just dawned on me........ The default baud rate of the new GPS chip is 34800. The VHF & AIS uses Port 2 and that can be set from 4800 up to 38400.
Port 1 will only work at 4800 or 9600
Port 3 is 4800 output to display only (I'm not sure what that means? Output to another Raymarine device or will it transmit data to any device at 4800 baud?)


I am going to have to use Port 2 and disconnect the VHF/AIS. Unless I can change the baud rate on the new GPS module to 9600 baud and I have No idea how to do that, I did not see any dip switches on the chip so...... My smile has turned into a frown for now.

 

[Refueler]

I cannot help with the Plotter .. sorry.

My way of solving stuff like this is to feed all into a plexor and then let that send out all the data .. you then have basically one data stream to connect to the plotter.

I use the NMEA2WiFi by Vela-navega ... and its a bargain .... now they do NMEA4WiFi - so even more units can be connected ....

I will be swapping out my 2 unit for the 4 I just rec'd ... the 2 will go back to my other boat ...

https://www.vela-navega.com/index.php/nmea4wifi

I used to setup RS232 and so on years ago and I hate these protocols .. so I like to find easy ways out .. that NMEA unit just works !! It may be answer for you ..
Output is WiFi .. USB ... NMEA ... and Seatalk1 ..... plus anyone on board can log into the WiFi to have the data on their phone / tablet / pc ..

 

[PaulRainbow]

That sounds so simple! It makes me feel like smiling In fact!

I can't wait to try it out.

Just one more question Refueler. The Plotter - Raymarine e90w currently gets its position from the iComm VHF-DSC and the iComm AIS next to it. I get position and heading but I have never been able to get it to display the AIS contacts on the Plotter screen. I have tried absolutely everything! Position and heading is all I get and that is using NMEA 0183 @ 34800 baud.. I do need to get the AIS targets displayed on the plotter when we head off to the Med in the Summer, even if I have to buy another AIS unit.

Now the plotter can use GPS but the Icon of the Earth has a red cross over it and if I go into the GPS page it says No GPS found so currently its a function and a page that does nothing. I am hoping that adding the new GPS module will activate this and it will show it acquiring the satellites etc.

Something has just dawned on me........ The default baud rate of the new GPS chip is 34800. The VHF & AIS uses Port 2 and that can be set from 4800 up to 38400.
Port 1 will only work at 4800 or 9600
Port 3 is 4800 output to display only (I'm not sure what that means? Output to another Raymarine device or will it transmit data to any device at 4800 baud?)


I am going to have to use Port 2 and disconnect the VHF/AIS. Unless I can change the baud rate on the new GPS module to 9600 baud and I have No idea how to do that, I did not see any dip switches on the chip so...... My smile has turned into a frown for now.

If you get GPS from the VHF, why are you adding another GPS ?

Can you set the GPS from the VHF to 4800 or 9600 ?

Models of VHF and AIS ?

How is the VHF and the AIS both connected to port 2 ?

Port 3 is 4800 output to display only (I'm not sure what that means? Output to another Raymarine device or will it transmit data to any device at 4800 baud?)

This means it's an input port, to the plotter. Restricted to IN only.

 

[Refueler]

If you get GPS from the VHF, why are you adding another GPS ?

Can you set the GPS from the VHF to 4800 or 9600 ?

Models of VHF and AIS ?

How is the VHF and the AIS both connected to port 2 ?



This means it's an input port, to the plotter. Restricted to IN only.

thanks Paul ..

 

[ritchyp]

Hi Refueler, (Edit - Sorry Paul I went straight to the last post, I hadn't seen the 2 previous replies before Refueler's last reply, when I typed all this.)

I have an icom IC-M505 VHF/DSC radio and it is linked to an icom IC-MA500 TR AIS transponder by an RS422 cable. These were already connected to the E90W on port 2 (NMEA 0183 @34800 baud) when I bought the boat a year ago.

The e90W does not have built in GPS but does have a GPS section in the menu but as I said in my earlier post it, it says no GPS Signal. Yes I know that I am getting my position information from the VHF/AIS but it is slow to react to heading changes and of course if the vessel is stationary the plotter does not know which direction the boat is facing so one has to look at the ship's compass.

I want to use more of the features available on the E90W namely the GPS section and The AIS targets on the icom AIS to be displayed on to the 90W plotter screen. The plotter is mounted at the helm and the icom AIS unit is at the chart table so I can't see it. I can set the collision warning to an alarm sound but then It wont stop until I go below and clear the warning so that's not great. I want to be able to see those AIS targets on the plotter screen. I have tried everything in the settings and yes pressing the AIS overlay soft key but all to no avail.

Port 1 if I recall, is not currently connected. The yacht used to have Navtex but was removed before I bought the bought. There is a blanking plate on the instrument facia panel at the top of the chart table. Im pretty sure it would hve been connected to Port 1 on E90w as the baud rate options are 4800 or 9600 (Navtex)

I replaced all the old Wind, depth, Log instruments and transducers with a new Garmin Kit and I have built an N2K network and the backbone is joined to a SeatalkNG backbone with a deviceNet adapter. That mini STNG network consists of the the autopilot P70S, EV1, ACU100 and the linear drive motor on the helm wheel. I also connected it to the plotter via a STNG spur cable. When I removed the red and black power cable from the 4 way hub (because the network is powered from the Chart table end) I had a spare connection which allowed me to plug in the STNG port on the back of the e90W. Also being Raymarine, the auto pilot and plotter have full functionality and I get Depth, STW and all the different wind data on the P70S Pilot controller head and also on the e90W

I spent half the Summer last year, doing all that and having the boat lifted out to drill a larger hole in the hull for the Airmar Depth & Log smart Triducer (DST 810 - which failed! I have a brand new MKII version supplied under warranty from Garmin but yet to be popped in as it has a paddle wheel)

That's the whole story. I thought it best to give you all the details so you can see the whole picture. Those 2 things are the missing pieces to the puzzle that I spent so much time and money fitting. Tore my boat apart, lifted it out and made a bigger hole in my hull. Everything works well but I really want to use the GPS function on the e90w and cannot understand why I am not getting those AIS targets on my plotter display.
That is why i bought this drone GPS chip but I have no idea how to flash it to 9600 baudso I think I wasted my money, just ordered the 5V BEC this morning too!

The combined N2K and STNG is correctly terminated and as i said, it works well. I also have an old Garmin colour chart plotter that has its own Garmin Mushroom antenna mounted on the pushpit. It has a 7 pin NMEA 0183 cable plugged in but none of the wires are connected to anything now since I pulled out all the old Stowe instruments. The GPS works but I don't switch it on anymore (Its a redundancy backup)

 

[Refueler]

mmmmm some people use "Ucenter" on a windows PC to alter modules ... but TBH - I have never had to ... I've just wired up and its worked.

I know its not what you want to hear - but I would be inclined to attack this in steps ... unplug al from the e90 except power .. connect the Beitian and fire it up ... let chip settle - may take a few minutes to get position ..
If it works ... then start reconnecting other items.

Honest - if I was with you - I'd have a go but I'm not so its very hard to answer. I wonder if the Seatalk is creating a block or limitation to the 0183 ?

I've downloaded the whole manual .... and I find P34 confusing where it labels connections IN - OUT .. but then where the colour is stated - its the oposite !!

It appears that you should be using a pair of the Orange - Yellow and Orange - Brown ... if that doesn't work - try the other pair .. Orange - White and Orange - Green. That set allows 38400 ...

 

[PaulRainbow]

It appears that you should be using a pair of the Orange - Yellow and Orange - Brown ... if that doesn't work - try the other pair .. Orange - White and Orange - Green. That set allows 38400 ...

Orange - White and Orange - Green is correct

 

[PaulRainbow]

Hi Refueler, (Edit - Sorry Paul I went straight to the last post, I hadn't seen the 2 previous replies before Refueler's last reply, when I typed all this.)

I have an icom IC-M505 VHF/DSC radio and it is linked to an icom IC-MA500 TR AIS transponder by an RS422 cable. These were already connected to the E90W on port 2 (NMEA 0183 @34800 baud) when I bought the boat a year ago.

The e90W does not have built in GPS but does have a GPS section in the menu but as I said in my earlier post it, it says no GPS Signal.

Been a while since i've worked on a E90W, but i'm pretty sure that you only get the GPS icon showing if the GPS is connected to the Seatalk GPS port.

Yes I know that I am getting my position information from the VHF/AIS but it is slow to react to heading changes and of course if the vessel is stationary the plotter does not know which direction the boat is facing so one has to look at the ship's compass.

This won't change with the GPS you have bought. You are using course data to show the way the boat is facing. That is derived from GPS data. If you're not moving, it doesn't work. What you need is heading data, this has to come from a compass, usually fluxgate. This should be available from the autopilot, look through the menus to select it.

The combined N2K and STNG is correctly terminated and as i said, it works well.

Just to confirm, there should be one terminator on the N2K section and one on the STNG section, the two sections connected together by a backbone cable (N2K to STNG)

 

[PaulRainbow]

Can you confirm the port used to connect the AIS to the VHF and the port used to connect the AIS to the plotter please ?

Hold for on connecting the new GPS for a while, else it will muddy the water.

I would suggest noting all current connections, then disconnect everything and connect as follows, one at a time, verifying that it works :

AIS to VHF - Port 1, set to 4800 bps

AIS to plotter - Port 2, defaults to 38400.

I think you can connect the new GPS to port 2 input and disconnect the current GPS from the AIS.

Note page 12 in the AIS manual :

12
3 PREPARATION
■ Initial setting mode
D NMEA Input/Output ports (Continued)
• AIS Output
Set the NMEA2 output port’s capability.
This function should normally be set to “ AIS.”
q P ush [∫] or [√] to select “AIS Output.”
w Push [ENT] to select either “AIS” or “AIS+GPS.”
• You can also select the option by pushing [Ω] or [≈].
AIS : The NMEA2 output port sends only the AIS
information to the connected device. (Default)
AIS+GPS : The NMEA2 output port sends both the AIS
and GPS information to the connected device.
This setting is recommended for use in an area
where there are few vessels. In areas crowded
with AIS equipped vessels, a large amount of
information is received. The output of GPS in-
formation has priority, so the NMEA2 output
port may not send some AIS information cor-
rectly. However, the transponder displays the
AIS information on it’s LCD correctly.
e Push [CLEAR] to save and return to the Initial setting
mode