Why would anyone get a twin keel if they could have a fin?

[Tranona]

It may be simpler to buy in the Med as the boats are almost already suited for the climate. So instead of taking a lot of time and effort getting from the UK to the Med, you can start enjoying your new lifestyle immediately and save making the mistake of buying the wrong boat.

This is becoming les and less doable. With a budget of less than £20k the choice in the Med will be really limited. Far fewer smaller older boats simply because the volume production of boats in Europe started ramping up 15-20 years after the UK, and then only in France and Italy. Many of the small "liveaboards" are UK boats discarded by their owners who took them there years ago. Add to that the actual process of buying a boat from a UK base is time and money consuming.

Not directly related to the boat choice question but anybody contemplating this nomadic lifestyle starting from the UK really does need to consider whether it is actually possible with the travel restrictions. Bit like the fashion 40 years ago of going east on the hippy trail to Nepal, it is a thing of the past, killed by geopolitical changes and high economic barriers. Overcoming these makes choosing a boat a walk in the park.

 

[DangerousPirate]

This is becoming les and less doable. With a budget of less than £20k the choice in the Med will be really limited. Far fewer smaller older boats simply because the volume production of boats in Europe started ramping up 15-20 years after the UK, and then only in France and Italy. Many of the small "liveaboards" are UK boats discarded by their owners who took them there years ago. Add to that the actual process of buying a boat from a UK base is time and money consuming.

Not directly related to the boat choice question but anybody contemplating this nomadic lifestyle starting from the UK really does need to consider whether it is actually possible with the travel restrictions. Bit like the fashion 40 years ago of going east on the hippy trail to Nepal, it is a thing of the past, killed by geopolitical changes and high economic barriers. Overcoming these makes choosing a boat a walk in the park.

Well, i gamble on the fact that this will open up soon enough again.

 

[SailingDog]

Well, i gamble on the fact that this will open up soon enough again.

OK, what grounds do you base that on. Not sure open up is likely in the short to medium term short boating trips possibly.

 

[Tranona]

Well, i gamble on the fact that this will open up soon enough again.

Sorry, but that is not going to happen - if anything restrictions are likely to increase, not just the Brexit related ones. Our 30 years of relative political stability have ended.

 

[SmileyGiley]

Horses for courses. Cruising North Wales, a twin keel is lovely. Cruising the med, a twin keel is pointless.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Sorry, but that is not going to happen - if anything restrictions are likely to increase, not just the Brexit related ones. Our 30 years of relative political stability have ended.

I am not affected by the brexit, as I am german. The only interesting restrictions are the covid ones, and those are the ones I think will go away soon.

 

[johnalison]

It doesnt always follow that the bilge keelers are slower than the fin keel counterparts. I havea very distant memory of a PBO investigation in which they sailed 2 Sadler ?25s against each other, on fin one BK. There was not enough difference in performance to say one was the better than the other, except that the Bilge keeler was found to be a little faster off the wind than its fin keeled sister!

I don't remember that article, not having been a PBO reader, but there was also a YM one comparing the four Sadler 32 keels. The gist of the report was about leeway and not surprisingly the deep fin came out best, with the drop keel close behind. The bilge keel was significantly worse and the shallow fin not much better. My own shallow fin HR is deeper than the Sadler's and closer to the deep fin in performance. My conclusions from sailing in company with and racing deeper-finned sister ships is that the pointing is much the same, and no obvious difference in leeway or sail-carrying ability. In some conditions the lower wetted surface makes us faster but we tend to roll more.

 

[Rappey]

My friend has a moody 36 bilge keel and is a member of the moody forum. I seem to recollect him telling me that bill dixon stated there is no difference in performance between the fin and bilge. I sailed his boat and was very surprised how well it went to windward easily staying at 30 degrees on the raymarine annometer.

 

[Graham376]

This is becoming les and less doable. With a budget of less than £20k the choice in the Med will be really limited. Far fewer smaller older boats simply because the volume production of boats in Europe started ramping up 15-20 years after the UK, and then only in France and Italy. Many of the small "liveaboards" are UK boats discarded by their owners who took them there years ago. Add to that the actual process of buying a boat from a UK base is time and money consuming.

I think it's still doable. Have seen many boats of all sizes change hands to overseas buyers in the years here on the Algarve, many of them Brits buying boats which have, as you say, been discarded in yards often following breakup of partnerships, illness or death. Still plenty of cheap boats around for those with time and inclination for some fettling.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

In the halcyon days of British boatbuilding, if you ordered a new boat the salesman would ask :

" And how would sir like his keel done , bilge, fin, lifting or shallow fin ?"

Bilge keels seem to be a British thing. Other shallow water areas of the world like Queensland, usually go for tri's and cats with N. America lifting keels and multihulls .

Interesting that the French are experimenting with twin keels, where previously you would have gone for say an Ovni .

 

[Just_sayin']

Um ??

Who to call for reasonably priced engine fitting in Kent?

 

[DangerousPirate]

Um ??

Who to call for reasonably priced engine fitting in Kent?

Yeah? Different topic.

 

[johnalison]

It is obviously possible to design a performance boat with bilge keels. I saw this impressive yacht in Germany though I believe it is a French design. It is about 40' and, most impressive of all, has a steerable saildrive, which you just see.

 

[Just_sayin']

Yeah? Different topic.

So #49 yesterday "I just don't wanna buy a boat that i will regret to have bought later" doesn't conflict with "I am considering buying a new engine and fit it in a boat"?

 

[DangerousPirate]

So #49 yesterday "I just don't wanna buy a boat that i will regret to have bought later" doesn't conflict with "I am considering buying a new engine and fit it in a boat"?

Sorry to disappoint you with my answer, but no, it doesn't conflict. Two different topics.

One is the boat I have been asked to manage for someone, the other consideration is about my own boat. Do you need the names, addresses and NiNo, too? Or is that enough for now?

 

[Just_sayin']

No disappointment. I was hoping the forum had helped you make a decision which you’d then tell us about.

 

[DangerousPirate]

No disappointment. I was hoping the forum had helped you make a decision which you’d then tell us about.

Oh, I see. Came across a little nosey.

No, they're two separate topics.

 

[Pete7]

Horses for courses. Cruising North Wales, a twin keel is lovely. Cruising the med, a twin keel is pointless.

Agreed he should leave the bilge keeler in the UK for someone else to enjoy and make best use of its ability.

Lyme Regis anyone? when the tide is in. At LW Springs the water only just reaches the end of the pontoon.

Pete

 

[Concerto]

I am not affected by the brexit, as I am german.

So, some more information that makes a huge difference to all of the replies. My earlier comments in post #57 still stand. Most of the posters on this thread are UK citizens sailing in UK waters and different rules apply to us about long term sailing in the Med, yet easier rules apply to you being in UK.

As we are both Medway based, perhaps you might like to meet up and chat through your options. If so, send me a PM with your contact details.

 

[Laysula]

sitting at red Wharf bay watching the kids play in the sand then rushing back to the boat as the sea come in. cheap mooring costs as well for bilge keels and easy to work on or scrape off etc.

red wharf bay kids

That brought back some good memories. We had many good weekends in Red wharf bay on our Cobra 850," Raphelia". Last time I saw her she was on a mooring in Holyhead so you'll probably come across her at some point.