Why is the Change to Daylight Saving Time Offset?

[Bodach na mara]

PS mattonthesea in post 19 may be wrong about that. I seem to remember ROSPA reporting that the deaths of children from accidents fell during the experiment as more occurred in the afternoon usually and these were reduced by the lighter journey home. It is certainly true that even in the central belt of Scotland it's not light in the morning during late December till the end of January until after 9am.

 

[LittleSister]

It looks like (in the UK) we switch from GMT to BST in Spring when there's a about 12 hours of daylight, and from BST to GMT in Autumn when there's about 10 hours. So there's an offset to give longer evenings in the Autumn.

So it seems to me the spring clock change could have been mid Feb to give everyone longer evenings for an extra month. (I appreciate dawn and dusk times don't perfectly align with length of the day but you get my point.)

Anyone know why it's offset in that way with a bias of lighter evenings in the Autumn? Harvest gathering? Did they do it specifically to annoy me?

It's a great question, and now you've raised it I want to know the answer, too.

It's a pity that most, if not all, of the responses miss the actual question entirely!

Not so much thread drift as thread capsize!

 

[capnsensible]

It's a great question, and now you've raised it I want to now the answer, too.

It's a pity that most, if not all, of the responses miss the actual question entirely!

Not so much thread drift as thread capsize!

OK. It's so that the person who punches the holes in the dark to let the stars shine through gets an extra hour in bed.

 

[lustyd]

Similarly for farm workers. They may want the daylight, but at what time of day seems irrelevant. I suppose they are not quite so out of touch with the rest of the world while out in the fields as they used to be...

Very good example. All the farmers I know milk the cows at the same time every day regardless of what the clock says. The cows don’t care that the clock changed.

 

[LittleSister]

OK. It's so that the person who punches the holes in the dark to let the stars shine through gets an extra hour in bed.

Yeah. That goes without saying, but why is the relative timing of the change different in the spring to that in the autumn?

Speaking of which, I could never remember whether one 'gained' an hour in spring and 'lost' one in autumn, or vice versa. I had to rack my brain and work it out from first principles each time the clock change came around. That was, until I did the grape picking (vendage) in France (Beaujolais and Champagne, 1976, 77 and 78, since you ask). It was very hard work, We'd get up early, work hard all day, and go to bed shattered about 8.30pm every evening. There were no days off until the harvest was finished. The tiredness (and backache) was cumulative. The Champagne harvest is the later of my two, and the clock change would occur part way through it. Oh, what great joy and relief was the prospect of an extra hour of sleep for that one night! I've never since had any problem remembering whether one gains or loses an hour in spring or autumn.

 

[LittleSister]

Very good example. All the farmers I know milk the cows at the same time every day regardless of what the clock says. The cows don’t care that the clock changed.

The cows aren't dependent on public transport and its timetable for getting to work in the cowshed, and don't have to drop off their young ones on their way there to the childminders who keep 'clock' hours.

 

[lustyd]

The cows aren't dependent on public transport and its timetable for getting to work in the cowshed, and don't have to drop off their young ones on their way there to the childminders who keep 'clock' hours.

Neither are farmers who by and large live in the farmhouse due to the unsociable hours involved.

 

[BobnLesley]

Many years ago a farmer was grumbling on Radio 4 that it would confuse the cows.

Ours move with the clocks - to suit the preference of the lads & lass who milk them - but this change is made over the course of a week; milking ten minutes early/late is OK, but switch it by an hour in one day and the cows get disgruntled, something which they indicate by kicking and shitting on your head more often.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Yeah. That goes without saying, but why is the relative timing of the change different in the spring to that in the autumn?

Speaking of which, I could never remember whether one 'gained' an hour in spring and 'lost' one in autumn, or vice versa. I had to rack my brain and work it out from first principles each time the clock change came around.

I see that you sorted it in the end. At school I learned the mnemonic "spring forward, fall back". On the subject of farming, I remember bitter complaints from farmers that they had to get up before dawn to milk the cows in the dark. They also complained about having to work in the fields in the dark. Then I realized that where I lived the cows came in before daybreak for most of December and January and that during the harvest season they were out in the fields working by the lights of the tractors till well after midnight.

I loved the fact that during the years of "Wilson time" (so called because it was Harold who introduced the change) I could leave work after the end of February and still have enough light to work on the boat.

 

[lustyd]

Ours move with the clocks - to suit the preference of the lads & lass who milk them - but this change is made over the course of a week; milking ten minutes early/late is OK, but switch it by an hour in one day and the cows get disgruntled, something which they indicate by kicking and shitting on your head more often.

You know it’s 2023? The people who “milk them” just wipe them and attach hoses then move on.

 

[capnsensible]

Yeah. That goes without saying, but why is the relative timing of the change different in the spring to that in the autumn?

Speaking of which, I could never remember whether one 'gained' an hour in spring and 'lost' one in autumn, or vice versa. I had to rack my brain and work it out from first principles each time the clock change came around. That was, until I did the grape picking (vendage) in France (Beaujolais and Champagne, 1976, 77 and 78, since you ask). It was very hard work, We'd get up early, work hard all day, and go to bed shattered about 8.30pm every evening. There were no days off until the harvest was finished. The tiredness (and backache) was cumulative. The Champagne harvest is the later of my two, and the clock change would occur part way through it. Oh, what great joy and relief was the prospect of an extra hour of sleep for that one night! I've never since had any problem remembering whether one gains or loses an hour in spring or autumn.

I've changed my watch back and forth 7 times since DST ended. Not sure why people fuss so much. It's only an hour.

 

[lustyd]

Not sure why people fuss so much

Honestly the British have very little else to do, fussing is all we have

 

[BobnLesley]

You know it’s 2023? The people who “milk them” just wipe them and attach hoses then move on.

There's slightly more to it than that; but by the time that two of you have 'just' wiped and attached hoses to >500 of them, you're about ready for a brew and a sit down.

 

[mattonthesea]

To answer the op: it's nothing to do with the amount of daylight; it's originally about when the daylight occurs. See Daylight Saving Time: Why Do We Change Our Clocks? | HistoryExtra

Your very sensible question probably got lost in international debate around unification.

 

[SaltyC]

Very good example. All the farmers I know milk the cows at the same time every day regardless of what the clock says. The cows don’t care that the clock changed.

Completely out of my depth, BUT in days gone by, was it better to have more light in the evenings for the harvest?? No GPS controlled combines but driven by people who needed to see?
Yes, same hours of daylight but crops dryer later in the day?????

 

[SaltyC]

I've changed my watch back and forth 7 times since DST ended. Not sure why people fuss so much. It's only an hour.

Every 3 days on a ship at 12k east to west (or reciprocal) 20mins / watch.

 

[Sandy]

I seem to remember that one of the reasons for returning to GMT was the number of Scottish children injured on the way to school on the dark. Caveat: could be wrong on that!

I was a school in the highlands when they messed around with the clocks. Going to school in the dark was no fun, coming home in the dark was no fun.

Trying to get to sleep at night mid summer needed blackout curtains.

 

[lustyd]

Completely out of my depth, BUT in days gone by, was it better to have more light in the evenings for the harvest?? No GPS controlled combines but driven by people who needed to see?
Yes, same hours of daylight but crops dryer later in the day?????

In days gone by farmers still worked in the daylight when they needed to and ignored the clocks. Farmers aren’t really 5pm home time kind of people, and they work at home anyway!
Farming is a 24x7 occupation, they relax when they can and work when they have to, whenever that may be. They’re also some of the most savvy accountants I know and maintain a pauper facade despite incredible wealth!

 

[mjcoon]

In days gone by farmers still worked in the daylight when they needed to and ignored the clocks. Farmers aren’t really 5pm home time kind of people, and they work at home anyway!
Farming is a 24x7 occupation, they relax when they can and work when they have to, whenever that may be. They’re also some of the most savvy accountants I know and maintain a pauper façade despite incredible wealth!

And then have to put up with Jeremy Clarkson taking the pi$$...

 

[lustyd]

And then have to put up with Jeremy Clarkson taking the pi$$...

Clarkson portrayed it well I thought, right down to the “woe is me I only made £20k last year”. He certainly showed how much work is involved and how hard it is to achieve anything without befriending and/or bribing the council.