Why is everything getting bigger and bigger.

[Concerto]

Since I started sailing in 1965, yachts and motorboats have grown in size and complexity. A 24 to 26ft yacht was considered to be a family cruiser in the 1960s, now a 40ft yacht is considered a starter boat by many yachting journalists.

This problem of expansion of size seems everywhere with boats. Today 2 announcements on different web sites shows more world records.

Royal Huisman are nearing completion of the world's largest sport fishing boat at 52 metres overall.
https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/royal-huismans-project-406-superyacht/

Royal Caribbean International have taken delivery of the world’s largest cruise ship, Icon of the Seas, from Meyer Turku shipyard in Turku, Finland.
https://gcaptain.com/royal-caribbea...n-of-the-seas-the-worlds-largest-cruise-ship/

Strangely most commercial aircraft are getting smaller after the demise of the 747 and Airbus 380. Recently I read plans of Pathfinder 1's 400ft airship which is twice the size of a Boeing 747-8 - the world's longest aircraft - and there are plans for an even bigger one.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/24871783/worlds-biggest-aircraft-pathfinder-google/
https://aviationweek.com/aerospace/advanced-air-mobility/ltas-large-rigid-airship-gets-airborne

Is size everything?

 

[Gsailor]

Stuff what journalists say.

Less than 30 foot is fine.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Size equates to comfort, and increasing size is anything but a problem.

The real problem is lack of space and comfort, the solution to this problem is an increase in size and complexity.

I sailed on a Kingfisher 20+ and then a Vega as a kid. The Kingfisher was a floating tupperware tub, the Vega was a great boat, but we were living on top of each other all the time (family of 5) with no fridge, no hot running water, no shower - and we had to sleep in the saloon and pack away our bedding every morning to have breakfast. The cockpit was too small for all of us to fit in at the same time without feeling like sardines and roller reefing was not fitted, making sail changes on a small foredeck the norm. I pulled the anchor up by hand and the engine was petrol, had a starting handle and a variable pitch prop. Talk about antiquated.

As I got older and did my yachtmaster, my first charter boat was a Westerly 33 ... it was still cramped and devoid of conveniences, the rear cabin was a dark, claustrophobic cave and the galley was small and cramped - nothing like what you get in a modern 33ft hull.

Fast forward 20 years ...

The first boat with a downstairs that I actually owned was a Bavaria 36 from 1999, 3 private double cabins with doors that were usable and comfortable, hot water, solar, autopilot, roller reefing, fridge, shower, sugar scoop swim platform, fantastic!!. I also have a family of 5 and it was luxury compared to my childhood - just having the space down below to cook and socialise without tripping over each other was wonderful - the kids could take a cabin each to read and get away from each other. It was simply bigger and more capable than the Vega ... waves that would break over the Vega foredeck, just rolled past the Bavaria, and under motor the Bav was light-years ahead. Just being bigger made bad weather less of an issue. Incidentally, I came to understand the need for handholds below - the Vega interior was so cramped you were never more than 6 inches away from a hard surface, and the saloon was so narrow you couldn't adopt a more stable stance, so you had to hang onto everything all the time. In my Bav, I could just stand below, feet apart and move my upper body to go with the flow, no hanging on like a limpet to everything available. My kids made a game out of hanging from the cabin roof grab rails and swinging around when the waves got up.

The next boat will be around 45ft ... with water maker, lots of solar, fridge, freezer, microwave, coffee machine, ice maker, washing machine, heating, AC, and a huge bank of Li batteries ... oh, and it will sail well, and have a big cockpit for entertaining/relaxing.

Things are getting bigger and more complex because it makes them more comfortable and convenient - cars, houses, boats.

Doesn't stop anyone that wants to from buying a smaller boat if that is what they want, but the market as a whole wants space and convenience.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We gave up modern conveniences and space for performance. Each to their own.

 

[Mark-1]

As I got older and did my yachtmaster, my first charter boat was a Westerly 33 ... it was still cramped and devoid of conveniences, the rear cabin was a dark, claustrophobic cave and the galley was small and cramped - nothing like what you get in a modern 33ft hull.

Even by modern standards a Westerly 33 wasn't cramped, they were massive for the time and not really put to shame by modern designs. (Agree about the rear cabin but a completely separate rear cabin had massive advantages to compensate for the disadvantages.)

If we're looking for examples of cramped boats from back in the day there's no shortage, Contessa 32, Nicholson 32... the list is endless. In fact, it could probably be summarized as anything but the larger Westerlys

Doesn't detract from your point, but I couldn't resist replying.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

No one ever said do you think it is small enough ...

... but dominatrix whiplash did state that small men try harder, which made them more fun.

 

[Stemar]

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. I reckon that applies to boats as well.

This one does only apply to boats - the amount of fun is inversely proportional to the size of boat. Sure a big boat is more comfortable, and just plain civilized, but fun?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. I reckon that applies to boats as well.

This one does only apply to boats - the amount of fun is inversely proportional to the size of boat. Sure a big boat is more comfortable, and just plain civilized, but fun?

The responsibility of it gets to me. I am privileged to steer a famous classic from time to time. Going around a mark involves very high anxiety levels, evidenced clearly by my Garmin app after the race.

 

[Biggles Wader]

The same applies to cars. Park a modern Mini next to the 1960 version and everything becomes clear-----We have got bigger too and would struggle to fit into those cars we had as teenagers. I would probably sink a Mirror if I got aboard!

 

[GHA]

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. I reckon that applies to boats as well.

This one does only apply to boats - the amount of fun is inversely proportional to the size of boat. Sure a big boat is more comfortable, and just plain civilized, but fun?

Depends on what you're doing. An afternoon out on the water or going cruising for months.

 

[Supertramp]

I followed a path similar to Baggywrinkle. I remember the unimaginable luxury of a toilet compartment. Now I have two.... Interestingly when my parents bought a new Westerly Centaur in 1972, it cost over half as much as the house they bought around the same time. I don't think the price of a Centaur equivalent buys much house today.

Much depends on circumstance. I don't live near my boat so a comfortable stay aboard matters more than if I sailed every weekend.

In many areas of life the new normal is larger than the old normal. I think it is driven by expectation and by increased wealth, and concentration of wealth. Not meant politically in any way.

 

[Neeves]

It is much more simple than posted

Since the 60's many people's wealth has increased, both in terms of capital and income.

We can now afford more than we, or our parents, did then.

On what are we going to spend our wealth (and income) or are we all leaving it for our children or charity (if there is a difference between charity and children .

If you want to post and say you are impecunious - that's possibly because you own a big yacht.

We live in houses that are too big for our needs, we drive big flash cars (who owned a Jaguar or Mercedes in the 60s, I now see learner drivers in BMWs, Lexus, Jaguar and Mercs). Hands up if you learnt to drive in one of these cars. In the 60s we had just got rid of rationing. Who went to the Caribbean for holidays in the 60s, who went on holidays outside the UK in the 60s.

Harold Macmillan said in 1957, of Britons "you have never had it so good" - he had no idea and he won the election 2 years later. Since then Governments have changed but wealth/income for many has inexorably increased.

Jonathan

 

[RupertW]

It's not what you've got, it's how you use it. I reckon that applies to boats as well.

This one does only apply to boats - the amount of fun is inversely proportional to the size of boat. Sure a big boat is more comfortable, and just plain civilized, but fun?

I no longer believe that, although I get where it comes from.

When I bought a 42 foot ex-charter boat I found it very sluggish compared to my GK24, and kept both for 8 years, GK just a drive away and 42 footer a flight away. And sure, the daysails in the GK were pure fun and the boat seemed to fit like a glove. But after the first season on the bigger boat we became much more comfortable sailing in the conditions thst made it more responsive and it’s able to handle a lot of weather and give a more awe-inspiring performance with all the big sails and winches and bar taut sheets.

And of course the sheer fun of anchoring in total comfort, being able to cook complicated fresh meals with chilled wine and ice in cocktails in remote places helped too.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Just goes to prove, you need more than 1 boat

Depends if you want to do this ....



... or this ...

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Since I started sailing in 1965, yachts and motorboats have grown in size and complexity. A 24 to 26ft yacht was considered to be a family cruiser in the 1960s, now a 40ft yacht is considered a starter boat by many yachting journalists.

This problem of expansion of size seems everywhere with boats. Today 2 announcements on different web sites shows more world records.

Royal Huisman are nearing completion of the world's largest sport fishing boat at 52 metres overall.
World's largest sportfish yacht nears completion - Marine Industry News

Royal Caribbean International have taken delivery of the world’s largest cruise ship, Icon of the Seas, from Meyer Turku shipyard in Turku, Finland.
Royal Caribbean Takes Delivery of Icon of the Seas, the World's Largest Cruise Ship

Strangely most commercial aircraft are getting smaller after the demise of the 747 and Airbus 380. Recently I read plans of Pathfinder 1's 400ft airship which is twice the size of a Boeing 747-8 - the world's longest aircraft - and there are plans for an even bigger one.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/24871783/worlds-biggest-aircraft-pathfinder-google/
LTA’s Large Rigid Airship Gets Airborne | Aviation Week Network

Is size everything?

Interesting about the aircraft getting smaller.
Commercially, everything else seems to be getting bigger. Probably because going bigger is sometimes cheaper and a higher return.. Providing of course you can fill it up with people or cargo.
Brunel over did it with The Great Eastern .
I found this bit about Mechanical Similitude quite interesting.
Offshore Sailor: Scaling factors.

 

[capnsensible]

Forum users waistlines.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Interesting about the aircraft getting smaller.

Size matters for aircraft fuel efficiency. Just not in the way that you think. - International Council on Clean Transportation

In our recent transpacific airline ranking, we assessed and compared the fuel efficiency of the top 20 airlines operating flights between the U.S., East Asia, and Oceana. One interesting finding was that airlines that predominantly use the four-engine Boeing 747 and Airbus A380 aircraft – Asiana, Korean Air, and Qantas – had the lowest overall fuel efficiency on transpacific operations. The question is, why?

One might assume that the larger the plane, the more fuel-efficient it is per passenger due to economies of scale. But in the case of flights over the Pacific, conventional wisdom turns out to be wrong. Size matters, but not in the way you think.

Airlines that operate very large aircraft burn more fuel and release more carbon than their peers. There are two reasons for this, one related to the aircraft itself and the other to how they are used on transpacific flights. Aircraft with four engines, or “quads”, tend to be less fuel-efficient than twinjets due to inherent design factors such as a higher wing weight and a smaller engine fan diameter. Second, quad aircraft operated with relatively fewer passengers over the Pacific in 2016 compared to twinjets due to lower seating densities and passenger load factors.

 

[fredrussell]

My coracle was the best. You could go out with the other hunter gatherers, run down a bison, scoop out the insides, stretch the skin over a few bent branches and hey presto, a boat. And in the evening you could all gather round the fire in a cave and argue (in a never-anything-but-fascinating way) over which is better, these new-fangled skin stretched over bent sticks things, or just clinging on to an inflated animal gut like in the good old days.

 

[johnalison]

Not only have we become wealthier but boats have become cheaper, when I compare them to the cost of houses and cars. Designers have also worked out how to combine accommodation with very decent performance. The ‘70s were fun but were certainly not a golden age of design, at least for cruisers. We raced a lot at the time and the majority of the fleet, across several clubs, was in the 22-30’ range. On the whole we were younger than many of today‘s new owners, in line with our age of marriage and starting families. We started at 22’ and went up in stages to our current 34’. Each time we got a new boat we thought we were joining the crowd, only to find that the crowd had bought even bigger boats and we were still the poor relations.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

baggywrinkle,
You mean like this?