Why is everything getting bigger and bigger.

[Baggywrinkle]

I've never sailed a trimaran but I can't believe letting the lee hull dig in like that is good for speed. Momentarily easing the sheets or luffing up a little with the gusts seems better.

With my catamaran, having the windward hull just free of the water with about 6 inches of rudder still submerged seemed to be the sweet spot for speed ... but I never raced so I wouldn't really know.

Me on the helm, with my dad on the trapeze many years ago.

 

[Mark-1]

With my catamaran, having the windward hull just free of the water with about 6 inches of rudder still submerged seemed to be the sweet spot for speed

Yeah, I've sailed a handful of Cats from 18-40ft, just never a Tri. I don't think there's a significant speed penalty in lifting a hull on a cat because the leeward hull doesn't dig in - if anything it reduces the wetted area.

The 40fter was incredible. Just a dart 18 scaled up to 40ft. It did 25kts *everywhere* but the toilet was over the side, you lived in the fresh air and you slept crammed into the hull coffin style. Sailed it two up and we each had a hull. It flew a hull easily and would capsize as easily as a Dart 18, I'm sure - but with no way to right it. Something that dangerous just had to be fun. ...and it was. When you think about it in a 2 hour afternoon blast you could be 50 miles from home and if the wind died... well... you would be 50 miles from home which was suddenly a very long way.

 

[Daydream believer]

baggywrinkle,
You mean like this?
View attachment 168376View attachment 168378

Can anyone convince me that sailing that contraption can be fun. To make matters worse it does not even look nice, sailing or at anchor.

 

[Mark-1]

Can anyone convince me that sailing that contraption can be fun. To make matters worse it does not even look nice, sailing or at anchor.

Never sailed one, but I've been overtaken like I was standing still by a fair few. Speed*, shallow draft and an outboard engine are three features in a cruising boat which have no substitute.

*Speed == cruising range and not being slave to fair tides. **
** I've often thought "I wish France was half the distance." Well, in that, it is.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Can anyone convince me that sailing that contraption can be fun. To make matters worse it does not even look nice, sailing or at anchor.

Obviously beauty is subjective. But if you’re open to trying it, try me. Doing that, like the photo, you’ll know you are going fast. Sheets in hand, best helm on the stick. But at 14-15kn, we’d be drinking tea and chatting, laughing about the AWBs receding in our wake, and having fun with them. Sailing through to leeward at a speed that makes them check their anchor hasn’t launched itself, even close hauled. Arriving at a tidal gate early enough to make the most of it, or getting to the pub at 6pm not 10pm. Then there’s all the deck space at a sunny anchorage. Climbing on and off is easy, swimming, kayaking or paddleboarding. Obviously, like I said, the real trade off is down below. She’s not roomy, but we’ve had 6 non dwarfs, but good friends, for dinner. Not to everyone’s taste, but within most people's sailing skill set safely.

 

[Daydream believer]

Sailing through to leaward being the operative word.
I do not do the other activities you mention & I doubt that I would be welcome in many marinas with such a craft,which is where I always end my journeys.
I would not want try berthing single handed either.
But to each his own & if you like it, then that is what matters. Not what I think.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Sailing through to leaward being the operative word.
I do not do the other activities you mention & I doubt that I would be welcome in many marinas which is where I always end my journeys.

It’ll outpoint your Hanse, and still be doing 9 knots in 15kn of breeze actually. And marinas….

 

[mjcoon]

... When you think about it in a 2 hour afternoon blast you could be 50 miles from home and if the wind died... well... you would be 50 miles from home which was suddenly a very long way.

That must be when having some cruising capability suddenly seems sensible...

 

[Mark-1]

I doubt that I would be welcome in many marinas which is where I always end my journeys.

It's almost as though boat choice is always a compromise.

(Althought I think one of the USPs of Dragonflys is they fold up to fit in a marina.)

 

[Chiara’s slave]

That must be when having some cruising capability suddenly seems sensible...

Mine’s not quite that quick, but has proper berths, a head with holding tank, a galley and heating. And much less easy to turn over. 7 out of 700 dragonflys have experienced a capsise. All while flying spinnakers, racing. All were righted and sailed again, no casualties

 

[benjenbav]

To tack back towards the original topic, in my current - possibly never to be resolved - search for a new, or next, boat, one type I’ve looked for in vain is what might be described as a day boat that sails like a witch, with some residential comforts. Say, 9m loa with standing room downstairs, heads that are more glamorous than bucket and chuck-it and a separate sleeping cabin.

There are older designs that more or less fit the bill but nothing new.

Perhaps there’s no market for it?

 

[westernman]

They're no longer in production but plenty still in use.
Seems like Airbus gambled on the hub+spoke model but point-to-point won out.

Interestingly, the lowest fuel consumption per passenger is currently the Airbus A220, which is not at all large.

My understanding is that the A380 was a very big aircraft made with oldish technology and also not suitable for carrying freight (which seems crazy).
It is big and fat - but uses less fuel than any of the B747s.

The current winners for the least fuel consumption per passenger mile are the A350 and B787. They are both largish planes made with modern technology including a load of composites, modern wing designs and new engines with very high bypass ratios.

Not sure where you got the A220 from, but it is a much smaller airplane. It is very fuel efficient in its category. But an A350 is more efficient as are all contemporary two aisle twin engined aircraft. But you won't be flying in an A350 for a flight of less than 1 hour. And on those flights the A321-neo is very efficient too, although it is much bigger.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

To tack back towards the original topic, in my current - possibly never to be resolved - search for a new, or next, boat, one type I’ve looked for in vain is what might be described as a day boat that sails like a witch, with some residential comforts. Say, 9m loa with standing room downstairs, heads that are more glamorous than bucket and chuck-it and a separate sleeping cabin.

There are older designs that more or less fit the bill but nothing new.

Perhaps there’s no market for it?

Pogo? Or other similar mono. But you’ll have to put up with us whizzing past. Hmm, 9.2m. Heads, galley, residual comforts you say. I could make a suggestion

 

[Daydream believer]

Pogo? Or other similar mono. But you’ll have to put up with us whizzing past. Hmm, 9.2m. Heads, galley, residual comforts you say. I could make a suggestion

A review of a 30 ft Pogo pointed out that it was being overtaken by a Hanse 311 when up wind.
The inside is designed for those who are vertically challenged & one could not say that they had the best of interior comforts. But of course, to get speed one needs to shed weight, so there has to be some inconvenience.

 

[westernman]

Pogo? Or other similar mono. But you’ll have to put up with us whizzing past. Hmm, 9.2m. Heads, galley, residual comforts you say. I could make a suggestion

Really?
Whizzing past a Pogo 12.50 which is doing 24 knots?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Really?
Whizzing past a Pogo 12.50 which is doing 24 knots?

He’s looking for 9m, a 30. But sure, a pogo 12.5 once did 24kn. It’s nowhere near that generally. We’d expect to keep up with one, we can at least keep up with other high performance 40 footers.

 

[Mark-1]

That must be when having some cruising capability suddenly seems sensible...

True, but up until that moment it's miller time!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

A review of a 30 ft Pogo pointed out that it was being overtaken by a Hanse 311 when up wind.
The inside is designed for those who are vertically challenged & one could not say that they had the best of interior comforts. But of course, to get speed one needs to shed weight, so there has to be some inconvenience.

I’m not a big fan of them. They’re a monohull yacht that is rated fun to sail and ticks some of ben’s boxes. Quick in ideal conditions, broad reach with asmymetric up and waves to surf. As you say, upwind they’re either stuck on all that wetted surface or cranked over losing power. They're trying to fill a gap in the market that my boat already occupies.

 

[westernman]

He’s looking for 9m, a 30. But sure, a pogo 12.5 once did 24kn. It’s nowhere near that generally. We’d expect to keep up with one, we can at least keep up with other high performance 40 footers.

Bet you can't keep up with a Sargo 28 though.
And it has some modern comforts in case a Pogo is a bit too spartan.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Mine’s not quite that quick, but has proper berths, a head with holding tank, a galley and heating.

Continuing the theme of getting bigger and bigger, I've now got hot water and a shower too



I don't need the extra space though. Still Billy no mates, and every mile I've sailed this one has been on my own.