rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
Nothing if foolproof as found in many years of design as fools are so invective
Which Liferaft
- Thread starter Cspirit
- Start date
Nothing if foolproof as found in many years of design as fools are so invective
Refueler
Well-Known Member
My comment was in reply to yours to the other guy ...
I am fully aware that commercial are required to have a certain number fitted with Hydrostatics ... but the Hydro does not cause inflation ... it only releases the holding straps.
My point was aimed at stating "YOU pull the painter" primarily
webcraft
Well-Known Member
We bought a Waypoint 4 Person Coastal Single Tube Liferaft. It has the huge advantage over the Lalizas version of a self-erecting canopy.
I bought this because my partner would never have been able to extract the (ancient) valise from the cockpit locker it has lived in since it was last serviced in 2010, and even I found it a struggle.
The Waypoint is not cheap, and not something I would like to spend more than a few hours in, but better than no liferaft. Sailing offshore in a small boat is a constant series of compromises.
- W
Dellquay13
Well-Known Member
I’ve sometimes mused that a life raft might be better deployed inside my boat, along with the flubber and all the fenders, as a form of instant positive buoyancy to keep the boat afloat should something go wrong
Not that I’ve got one to actually try it, before everyone calls me an idiot (and with the relative sizes of my 24’ boat and a life raft it’s more plausible than on a 7 tonne 42’er)
Not that I’ve got one to actually try it, before everyone calls me an idiot (and with the relative sizes of my 24’ boat and a life raft it’s more plausible than on a 7 tonne 42’er)
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NormanS
Well-Known Member
We used to have a life raft. We have an Avon Redcrest dinghy, which is normally stowed, fully inflated on its side, between the guard rail and the side of the deck saloon. In order to launch the liferaft, we would first have to launch the dinghy. It made sense to dispense with the liferaft.
Like Dunedin, we sail in some of the more remote parts of the West Coast, where any assistance can be a long way away. Sailing in these parts, one has to be independent, in all sorts of ways. If I ever had to abandon ship, I would rather abandon to our very seaworthy dinghy, and be able to head for some safety, than be bobbing about helplessly in a raft.
Like Dunedin, we sail in some of the more remote parts of the West Coast, where any assistance can be a long way away. Sailing in these parts, one has to be independent, in all sorts of ways. If I ever had to abandon ship, I would rather abandon to our very seaworthy dinghy, and be able to head for some safety, than be bobbing about helplessly in a raft.
webcraft
Well-Known Member
How on earth would you 'head for safety'?
We have a Redcrest, and I can't row against more than about 20kts of wind in flat water, let alone in open water.
You are kidding yourself. You need a canopy if abandoning in survival conditions.
(and an EPIRB or PLB)
- W
afterpegassus
Well-Known Member
It's been 30 years now, but was seriously grateful to have a life raft aboard when my boat disappeared below my feet just off Rona in the Inner Sound.
How many get used in anger in a year? Must be single figures but better looking at it than looking for it.
How many get used in anger in a year? Must be single figures but better looking at it than looking for it.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is really wishful thinking. OK if it is flat calm and you can lie in the bottom drinking a Pimms but the idea that you can make any progress in any kind of wind or sea is just fanciful. There have been cases where an Avon or other dinghy has been used in addition to a liferaft as a sort trailer for additional gear (Robertsons and Bailys experiences are well documented) but a proper liferaft is the best bet in survival conditions.
I don't buy this idea that you are more likely to need it where you say. There is no evidence in the reported events that involve yachts and liferafts in UK waters that it is any more likely to happen there. The events are random and widely distributed around the coast.
Welcome any well documented evidence that shows otherwise.
If you really think there is a high probability of your boat foundering then follow Webbies advice in post# 26. That is what I would do if I were undertaking his current passage, but where you sail I would be happy without a raft or an Avon cluttering up the sidedeck.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Please don't put words in my mouth. At no time have I suggested that "you are more likely to need it where you say". I'm not even very sure what that might mean.
A well known emergency which might lead to abandonment is fire. In that situation, which is as likely to happen in a flat calm, as a gale, I would much rather get into a dinghy than a raft. At least with the dinghy, you can row away from the fire.
ShaneO
Active Member
I hadn’t heard of the Lazilas-style liferaft-lite before, and there's a lot to like about it; I would certainly be intending to bring a barrel of accessories regardless, which could easily be tweaked to include food, anti-emetics, and water, along with the handheld VHF and spare batteries and electronic pyrotechnic alternatives (a separate debate) and whatever else is currently in there.
So that got me wondering how much of a standard liferaft service is just replacing out-of-date rations, meds, and pyro, and maybe inflation cartridges? Do they inflate and pressure-test them like one does with lifejackets? I’d love to do my own servicing of my inherited traditional offshore liferaft, sacking off the perishables and adopting the small extra risk that entails. Especially since the alternative seems to be it falling further and further out of date, because I’m not crossing oceans and there’s always something more pressing for the boat budget than a liferaft service. I just don’t know what it actually involves, and also I don’t have a lot of faith in my ability to fit it back in its box.
So that got me wondering how much of a standard liferaft service is just replacing out-of-date rations, meds, and pyro, and maybe inflation cartridges? Do they inflate and pressure-test them like one does with lifejackets? I’d love to do my own servicing of my inherited traditional offshore liferaft, sacking off the perishables and adopting the small extra risk that entails. Especially since the alternative seems to be it falling further and further out of date, because I’m not crossing oceans and there’s always something more pressing for the boat budget than a liferaft service. I just don’t know what it actually involves, and also I don’t have a lot of faith in my ability to fit it back in its box.
jamie N
Well-Known Member
I've a GK24, and really don't have space enough for a liferaft/valise. I don't want to tow a rubber dinghy, and having one deflated on the foredeck isn't an effective way of having an emergency escape craft.
For me, the most likely solution is to have a survival suit & PLB, although I've not bought a suit yet.
For me, the most likely solution is to have a survival suit & PLB, although I've not bought a suit yet.
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Stemar
Well-Known Member
For coastal sailing, a dinghy with an outboard and a can of fuel gives a decent possibility of making it to the shore. Even without the OB, it'll keep you afloat in all but the most unlikely scenarios until the cavalry gets there. You will drift a lot further than a proper liferaft, so maybe a PLB would be a good idea.
An LM27 could easily carry a flubber on davits, and I reckon an 80 year-old would have a much better change of launching that in a hurry than humping a liferaft around.
Obviously that's no good in Fastnet 79 conditions, but I reckon the likelihood of the OP being out then is only slightly more likely than me winning the lottery this week, and I didn't buy a ticket.
An LM27 could easily carry a flubber on davits, and I reckon an 80 year-old would have a much better change of launching that in a hurry than humping a liferaft around.
Obviously that's no good in Fastnet 79 conditions, but I reckon the likelihood of the OP being out then is only slightly more likely than me winning the lottery this week, and I didn't buy a ticket.
michael_w
Well-Known Member
With your boat on fire, or the topsides are disappearing below the water is the last time you wish you'd spent the money on a life raft than a spray hood and canvas.
IMHO there is a difference between safety equipment and emergency equipment. Safety includes: jackstays and harnesses, smoke and CO alarms etc. Emergency equipment may be the only thing standing between you and your god.
IMHO there is a difference between safety equipment and emergency equipment. Safety includes: jackstays and harnesses, smoke and CO alarms etc. Emergency equipment may be the only thing standing between you and your god.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Fire is one of the times that you launch a life raft upwind on a yacht. Other times you launch to leeward. Modern ISO liferafts will drift slower than the yacht and anyway, they come with paddles to allow limited manoeuvring e.g. for moving towards a casualty in the water, as well as moving away from the boat.
dansaskip
Well-Known Member
I had this dilemma when I had to replace my Liferaft and thought that one of these lightweight 2 man jobs might be just the thing. But then looking more deeply into it discovered that yes they are not really rated as a liferaft and furthermore the service interval was just a year ( pretty sure I remember right here) so I discounted the idea and settled on a 4 man in a canister. Still it is a pity that no-one makes a decent 2man proper liferaft but I guess there is not enough demand
Fimacca
Well-Known Member
I wonder about their usefulness and our own ability to deploy them effectively. I had one come with the boat so had it serviced. That was £400. My trips are as far as Brittany and the scillies - maybe Ireland next year - but coastal. I may just relieve myself of the weight and get an extra 1/2 knot !
Refueler
Well-Known Member
"Tranona" your comment seems to not have understood his point about the area he sails ....
"I don't buy this idea that you are more likely to need it where you say. There is no evidence in the reported events that involve yachts and liferafts in UK waters that it is any more likely to happen there. The events are random and widely distributed around the coast."
His point is not that he is more likely yo have an event ... its the remoteness of his area and IF an event occurred - the time for RNLI / CG to attend would be much longer than most other areas ...
"Like Dunedin, we sail in some of the more remote parts of the West Coast, where any assistance can be a long way away. Sailing in these parts, one has to be independent, in all sorts of ways"
"I don't buy this idea that you are more likely to need it where you say. There is no evidence in the reported events that involve yachts and liferafts in UK waters that it is any more likely to happen there. The events are random and widely distributed around the coast."
His point is not that he is more likely yo have an event ... its the remoteness of his area and IF an event occurred - the time for RNLI / CG to attend would be much longer than most other areas ...
"Like Dunedin, we sail in some of the more remote parts of the West Coast, where any assistance can be a long way away. Sailing in these parts, one has to be independent, in all sorts of ways"
sigma38dave
Well-Known Member
I’ve come full circle on this topic over 20 years of boat ownership.
Starting out with just luck and no experience hoping to gain the latter before the former ran out I had one on board as thought that’s what you did.
A couple of £400 services at Viking later I sold it and wasn’t worried about not having one, for the reasons given by various posters above.
Earlier this season we left Burnham on Crouch in fog and as soon as we switched on the VHF we overheard a distress call, someone’s luck had run out before they’d gained their experience and they’d hit a well charted sandbank on a falling tide, much panic onboard.
Burnham has a lifeboat station and the lifeboat was tasked to assist, you’d think as the casualty was in the same river as the lifeboat station it would be quick.
It was 45 minutes later the lifeboat overtook us on its way there, so at least an hour.
The timescale of this and the thought we could potentially be floating around for well over an hour even a few miles out made us think twice about our slightly cavalier attitude to safety and we updated all our gear.
Life jackets serviced, epirb battery changed, new electric flare, life raft and a refresh of the grab bag.
Starting out with just luck and no experience hoping to gain the latter before the former ran out I had one on board as thought that’s what you did.
A couple of £400 services at Viking later I sold it and wasn’t worried about not having one, for the reasons given by various posters above.
Earlier this season we left Burnham on Crouch in fog and as soon as we switched on the VHF we overheard a distress call, someone’s luck had run out before they’d gained their experience and they’d hit a well charted sandbank on a falling tide, much panic onboard.
Burnham has a lifeboat station and the lifeboat was tasked to assist, you’d think as the casualty was in the same river as the lifeboat station it would be quick.
It was 45 minutes later the lifeboat overtook us on its way there, so at least an hour.
The timescale of this and the thought we could potentially be floating around for well over an hour even a few miles out made us think twice about our slightly cavalier attitude to safety and we updated all our gear.
Life jackets serviced, epirb battery changed, new electric flare, life raft and a refresh of the grab bag.
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webcraft
Well-Known Member
The Waypoint lightweight raft has a 3 year service interval, and a self-erecting canopy.
- W
- W
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Your second paragraph. Fire is extremely rare at sea and no more likely where you are than anywhere else. However my main observation is that an Avon is no better than a proper raft. If the only advantage you see is that you can row away from the burning boat then you are only prepared the least likely cause of foundering.
