Which Boat

[Sandgrounder]

Hello,

Wise, informed, counsel is needed here about what is to be the next boat.
Briefly the background is that, with the advent of university for the younger cabbage, I will have more time to devote to my sailing. My sojourn on Windermere was intended to maximise sailing hours for the time invested. I will retain a daysailer on Windermere but keep a cruising boat on the sea. Once I am more free I want to return to the sea, specifically The Clyde. I know exactly where just not the boat, yet.
I mostly sail single handed but often have guests who volunteer to assist by drinking my gin and being pampered passengers who occasionally pull the wrong bit of string, in the name of helping, but would never do anything technical like haul in an anchor! They tend to come in groups of three or four so something reasonably large will be required.
I have no pretensions towards racing or performance but will hopefully want to undertake some fairly lengthy trips so seaworthiness and comfortable accommodation are a priority. I will stress I do not want a modern French/German boat with an aft cabin under the cockpit; I find them too claustrophobic to be able to coherently describe my dislike of them. I think a centre cockpit boat may be the answer with an aft cabin that can be treated like a conservatory only opened up when needed so that I would effectively have a smaller boat when singlehanded, larger when with passengers.
My maximum budget will be about £40k including any work or refitting needed. Presently on my list would be: - Nicholson 38 - very small cockpit; Moody 33; Westerly 33, Westerly Ocean Dream etc.; Moody Halberdier.
I should be grateful for advice from anyone who has experience of any of these or suggestions of others that would meet my needs. I repeat I do not want to hear about modern boats with large sleeping shelves under the cockpit suited only to troglodytes!
Thanks in anticipation

 

[Tam Lin]

If you mostly sail single handed then buy a boat that is suitable for that. Occasional guests should not determine your boat buying priorities. (Well that"s what I think, you may disagree!)

 

[Sandgrounder]

I don't disagree. I have deliberately limited my list to boats that I am confident that I could happily sail single handed.

 

[Tranona]

I don't disagree. I have deliberately limited my list to boats that I am confident that I could happily sail single handed.

You have answered your own question - although your list does contain boats that are very different in character. There are, of course many more off similar age/type and most can be set up to sail independently. However if you are going to berth in a marina you may find some (particularly the long keelers) a bit of a handful unless you fit a bow thruster.

Having similar requirements myself I avoided the type of boats you are looking at, having sailed a similar type but smaller, and bought the type of boat you reject. Suggest you actually try something like a Bav 32 or similar size Benny or Jeanneau which you can buy well within your budget (and 20 or more years younger) and you might be surprised how easy they are for single handers.

However, if you do go down the "old boat" route the key thing you will find is not the particular model, but condition, unless you like fixing boats more than sailing.

 

[Sybarite]

Hello,

I should be grateful for advice from anyone who has experience of any of these or suggestions of others that would meet my needs. I repeat I do not want to hear about modern boats with large sleeping shelves under the cockpit suited only to troglodytes!
Thanks in anticipation

Why not consider this type of boat but that you sleep in the front cabin or in the saloon? You open up the choices and will probably end up with a better sailing boat.

 

[doug748]

"I should be grateful for advice from anyone who has experience of any of these or suggestions of others that would meet my needs. I repeat I do not want to hear about modern boats with large sleeping shelves under the cockpit suited only to troglodytes!
Thanks in anticipation "


Bad luck Sangrounder your requirements come way down the list.....

........perhaps consider a motorbike and sidecar or a nice cottage in in Brittany.

 

[doug748]

PS,

I like the aft cabin Moody models.

Moody, meant to say Moody:

http://m.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=358656

I see someone locally who singlehands her 346 quite happily.

 

[Sandgrounder]

"I should be grateful for advice from anyone who has experience of any of these or suggestions of others that would meet my needs. I repeat I do not want to hear about modern boats with large sleeping shelves under the cockpit suited only to troglodytes!
Thanks in anticipation "


Bad luck Sangrounder your requirements come way down the list.....

........perhaps consider a motorbike and sidecar or a nice cottage in in Brittany.

 

[dunedin]

Looks like you may have just missed a great Clyde based boat within budget
http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats_for_sale/1254514/

Before settling on an older doesn't sail as well, doesn't singlehand as well and has less space, try looking at some of the more modern ones like this Elan 333. Or a Moody 336 perhaps

 

[eddystone]

Regarding suitability for singlehanding, personally I would want a tiller but for the actual sailing as I can tack mine from the tiller (which is between my legs) without needing a tiller pilot; there used to be a Moody 336 parked on the same pontoon and I thought nice boat but difficult to singlehand because you would be stranded behind the v.large wheel unable to reach the primaries - I think a lot of boats are like that but even some older designs are not ideal for singlehanding - eg. Sigma 33 with the traveller across the middle of the cockpit instead of sensible location on the bridgedeck. To me the parking is the biggest challenge and I admire anyone who can park a 38ft yacht on their own, particularly a long keeler (is the Nic 38 long keel?). Desirable qualities in that context include also low freeboard for easy access to whatever you're are trying to attach to and high inertia/low windage. Most modern boats seem to be the antithesis of that, whatever their other qualities. From my distant recollection of the only centre cockpit yachts I have sailed, A Moody 37 and an HR45, I would say CC is worse because its a bigger stretch to lasso the cleat but I may be wrong there.

 

[Sandgrounder]

Regarding suitability for singlehanding, personally I would want a tiller but for the actual sailing as I can tack mine from the tiller (which is between my legs) without needing a tiller pilot; there used to be a Moody 336 parked on the same pontoon and I thought nice boat but difficult to singlehand because you would be stranded behind the v.large wheel unable to reach the primaries - I think a lot of boats are like that but even some older designs are not ideal for singlehanding - eg. Sigma 33 with the traveller across the middle of the cockpit instead of sensible location on the bridgedeck. To me the parking is the biggest challenge and I admire anyone who can park a 38ft yacht on their own, particularly a long keeler (is the Nic 38 long keel?). Desirable qualities in that context include also low freeboard for easy access to whatever you're are trying to attach to and high inertia/low windage. Most modern boats seem to be the antithesis of that, whatever their other qualities. From my distant recollection of the only centre cockpit yachts I have sailed, A Moody 37 and an HR45, I would say CC is worse because its a bigger stretch to lasso the cleat but I may be wrong there.

I accept your point about single handed mooring and the Nic is a long keel so would be difficult if not fitted with a bow thruster. On the plus side my mooring will be a swinging mooring; I actively dislike marinas besides which once you leave the Clyde there are many fewer marinas so its mostly anchoring.
Coming alongside in my present boat on Windermere, which has no functioning astern gear I trickle ahead and lassoo a cleat with a bight in a line lead from a stern cleat out and back to a winch; that brings her nicely alongside and keeps he there while you make fast with other lines. Quite easy really although I accept there is no tinbde to worry about!

 

[doris]

Why not a Fulmar or Sadler 34. Both within budget, not troglodytic, AFAIR, and bullet proof.

 

[E39mad]

Vancouver 32 or an early 34 would be my choice (one 34 for sale asking £45000) - easily driven yet being beautifully directionally stable with a cutter rig means ease of short handling.

 

[Channel Sailor]

If wanting cheaper an old, maybe look at the ideas in a High Tension 36 with tiller steering and roller reefing Genoa. Un complicated, purposeful, flatfish decks to safety move around quickly when single handed but also good for lounging around on, plenty of berths but rather open plan layout. I have not looked but there could be something similar but newer by dufour.

 

[saltylegs]

My last boat was a Sigma 33 which I was able to single hand and park quite easily and they are half of your budget.
They are also quite simply put together so easy/cheap to work on.

 

[pvb]

I have no pretensions towards racing or performance but will hopefully want to undertake some fairly lengthy trips so seaworthiness and comfortable accommodation are a priority. I will stress I do not want a modern French/German boat with an aft cabin under the cockpit; I find them too claustrophobic to be able to coherently describe my dislike of them. I think a centre cockpit boat may be the answer with an aft cabin that can be treated like a conservatory only opened up when needed so that I would effectively have a smaller boat when singlehanded, larger when with passengers.
My maximum budget will be about £40k including any work or refitting needed. Presently on my list would be: - Nicholson 38 - very small cockpit; Moody 33; Westerly 33, Westerly Ocean Dream etc.; Moody Halberdier.

Don't dismiss more recent production cruisers - sure, they might have aft cabins, but you don't have to use them (mine's used for storage). But your budget will buy you a decent-sized early 2000s production cruiser which will probably be much easier to singlehand than a boat from the 70s/80s. Plus, it should have a good few years of life left on the engine, and is likely to have more modern and functional instrumentation, more comfortable accommodation and a decent heads.

I've owned a number of different boats, but my current modern production cruiser is by far the easiest one I've handled, and I usually use it singlehanded.

 

[jonjo]

Seems to me the OP does not want advice, he is really soliciting for replies that affirm his predudices.

To go single handing one first needs a boat that goes. I suspect single handing the OP will experience is signing cheques for his project MAB.

I owned a NIch 38 briefly and can confidently say that Nichs of that vintage had a terrible osmosis reputation. The rudder will need a rebuild if not already done. The aft cabin is pokey and will end up as a gear duming ground and what was that 1970's thing about plonking a washand basin in the middle of an aft cabin. I am sure if i had owned the Nich 38 longer I would have discovered where Nicholsons had hidden the Hostess Trolley.

The NIch 38 does have some redeeming features that point to the desirable characteristics of a scottish solo sailing yacht. Low freeboard, mid position helm+engine controls = easy access to pontoon or mooring buoy. I liked the snug centre cockpit not compromised by an aft cabin walkthrough though this came with the theoretical penalty of a non self draining cockpit. A later Westerly or Moody with an aft cabin walkthrough equates to a hypothermia inducing high alitude cockpit which is not something for Scottish lattitudes.

The OP should buy a tradable yacht in working order, sail it for a few season in order to establish what he really needs. A secondhand Bavaria 34 as featured in last month's YM would suffice.

 

[stav]

I regularly sail our westerly conway singlehanded, never been further than across the channel and find mooring generally ok. the centre cockpit is helpful when single handed as can get from wheel to midships quickly. The ketch rig is something I have learned to live with and quite enjoy, especially as I have hank on headsails and hoist the mizzen when anything over 60 degrees from the wind, if needed. Prior to that had nicholson 36, which I loved but required a bit of patience in a marina, such as stopping at the end of a pontoon and walking the length to identify a berth etc. Look for one that someone has loved, mine looks a bit tired but had a keel off rebuild under the supervision of a surveyor in 96.

And me on my own, I do know often have the company of the dog............. https://youtu.be/RGAlKrXCP48

Happy hunting and perhaps would add my biggest criteria when looking for Halina was to find a boat with the best maintenance record.

 

[Sandgrounder]

Seems to me the OP does not want advice, he is really soliciting for replies that affirm his predudices.

To go single handing one first needs a boat that goes. I suspect single handing the OP will experience is signing cheques for his project MAB.

I owned a NIch 38 briefly and can confidently say that Nichs of that vintage had a terrible osmosis reputation. The rudder will need a rebuild if not already done. The aft cabin is pokey and will end up as a gear duming ground and what was that 1970's thing about plonking a washand basin in the middle of an aft cabin. I am sure if i had owned the Nich 38 longer I would have discovered where Nicholsons had hidden the Hostess Trolley.

The NIch 38 does have some redeeming features that point to the desirable characteristics of a scottish solo sailing yacht. Low freeboard, mid position helm+engine controls = easy access to pontoon or mooring buoy. I liked the snug centre cockpit not compromised by an aft cabin walkthrough though this came with the theoretical penalty of a non self draining cockpit. A later Westerly or Moody with an aft cabin walkthrough equates to a hypothermia inducing high alitude cockpit which is not something for Scottish lattitudes.

The OP should buy a tradable yacht in working order, sail it for a few season in order to establish what he really needs. A secondhand Bavaria 34 as featured in last month's YM would suffice.

Jonjo,

I am interested in advice I simply don't want people to waste their time recommending boats which I am unlikely to consider. However there are lots of boats that I have not listed which might meet my requirements. I have also received some useful commentsw from people with experience of boats I ight be interested.
You seem to believe that unless I am prepared to accept whatever you say I shouldn't be asking for advice. Whereas I am trying to gain from others experience; sorry if that doesn't suit you

 

[Concerto]

Try and get a 3/4 rig as the mainsail is more easily controlled and the headsail is smaller. I disagree about having more modern boats as the higher freeboards and lighter displacement make them more skittish than something that sits in the water rather than on it. At Southampton boat show a couple of years ago I looked at a Dufour 32 and had to leave as the motion in the choppy water made it uncomfortable. Also wide flat transoms can slap waves in at a mooring or anchorage.

I had a similar decision for a choice of boat and similar budget. Eventually I decided on a Westerly Fulmar and am spending a lot on bringing her up to a modern standard. When finished my boat will have only cost a third of what a new boat would have cost. I also believe it will still be sailing once the modern boat reaches the end of its economic repair life. The Fulmar is being regarded as a modern classic, something I doubt any modern 32ft boat will achieve. The older boats are very much a sailor's boat, whereas modern boats are designed for the accomodation first based upon the charter market demands.

So I have laid out my prejudices and am happy for others to disagree.