Where is "Sowt Sarah"?

[JumbleDuck]

Anyone who wants to hear what all the fuss is about can find an example of Neil Nunes reading the shipping forecast at

https://soundcloud.com/jb_uk/neil-nunes-bbc-radio-4-and

It sounds beautifully clear to me. The idea that it's a speech impediment or mickey-taking is ludicrous.

 

[Coaster]

Without wanting to sound picky, because I'm not, it would be interesting to know where you come from. Fishermen around rural Scotland probably wouldn't find a Jamaican accents any harder, or easier, to understand than RP.

Born in Bristol, father Welsh, mother Bristolian, lived in Southampton area and in south English midlands, spent quite a lot of time in Wales.

As others here have stated, clarity is important for R4 announcements that need to be easily understood. Consequently the lack of a regional accent is advantageous for such announcements. People listening occasionally don't then need to struggle with lots of different accents.

The idea that an upper class southern English accent must automatically be the most intelligible to foreigners (espcially if you SHOUT) is a pervasive one, and a wrong one.

Social class is a slippery concept that seems to be often cited mainly as a term of abuse. I don't know any BBC announcers that could be properly described as having "upper class southern English accents".

 

[JumbleDuck]

Born in Bristol, father Welsh, mother Bristolian, lived in Southampton area and in south English midlands, spent quite a lot of time in Wales.

As others here have stated, clarity is important for R4 announcements that need to be easily understood. Consequently the lack of a regional accent is advantageous for such announcements. People listening occasionally don't then need to struggle with lots of different accents.

The idea that a regional accent is automatically unclear is an odd one. Sure, use of local vocabulary can be confusing, but I really find it hard to believe that there are people who would listen to the shipping forecast read by someone from Penzanze, Bristol, Ramsgate, Carlisle, Perth or Shetland and scratch their heads in utter bewilderment. It's the same words!

Social class is a slippery concept that seems to be often cited mainly as a term of abuse. I don't know any BBC announcers that could be properly described as having "upper class southern English accents".

I do beg your pardon. I meant "upper middle class", as before.

 

[vyv_cox]

Anyone who wants to hear what all the fuss is about can find an example of Neil Nunes reading the shipping forecast at

https://soundcloud.com/jb_uk/neil-nunes-bbc-radio-4-and

It sounds beautifully clear to me. The idea that it's a speech impediment or mickey-taking is ludicrous.

Sounds perfectly OK to me. I did like 'Fair Hile'! Anyone who finds that difficult to understand is welcome to try understanding some of the girls on Olympia radio, read at breakneck speed in difficult accents without the benefit of punctuation. Fortunately everything they say has already been read on navtex.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sounds perfectly OK to me. I did like 'Fair Hile'!

"Milford Haven" comes out rather beautifully - and very clearly - too.

 

[Coaster]

The idea that a regional accent is automatically unclear is an odd one. Sure, use of local vocabulary can be confusing, but I really find it hard to believe that there are people who would listen to the shipping forecast read by someone from Penzanze, Bristol, Ramsgate, Carlisle, Perth or Shetland and scratch their heads in utter bewilderment. It's the same words!

You appear to be deliberately disingenuous.

Nobody on this thread has suggested they're "utterly bewildered" by accents.

I and others here find some words spoken by Neal Nunes to be hard to decipher. In a R4 documentary or drama that would be of little importance. When announcing the shipping forecast it does matter, to me and various others.

Your opinion may differ. I suspect that a substantial proportion of R4 listeners would agree with me.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Nobody on this thread has suggested they're "utterly bewildered" by accents.

Well, let's see, shall we ...

Leaving aside the slur, the point is that Nunes' accent is a strong accent, unfamiliar to the vast majority of English speakers. It is unrepresentative of any natural English dialect. It is the contrived consequence of a non-English speaker learning English. Aside from that, it is grating, unnatural, and irritating. I don't speak RP, but I don't want to hear anything other on national radio.

Nunes' pronunciation frequently bears no resemblance to the words, read the thread title, that's why I started the thread. You may love his diction and even want to have his babies, but in objective analysis it is hard to understand, especially over the wind through a little radio speaker.

As for accents, when someone suddenly starts speaking with a strong regional or Caribbean accent, which the listener does not share, the listener has to concentrate hard to 'tune in' his brain to the different vowel sounds.
It must be almost impossible for foreign sailors to comprehend Neal Nunes, and that must be wrong surely?

That's not diversity it's a speech impediment or mickey-taking.

I would invite anyone who is curious about Mr Nunes "strong, grating, unnatural and irritating" accent, which "bears no resemblance to the words" and is "almost impossible for foreign sailors to comprehend" because it's a "speech impediment" to listen to the link I provided.

This one is quite relevant too, I think:

 

[Coaster]

Well, let's see, shall we ...

Indeed we shall. And have.

Not one is "utterly bewildered".

They're not that stupid.

Merely puzzled by some poorly pronounced words.


The YouTube clip is one of my favourites.

 

[prv]

Anyone who wants to hear what all the fuss is about can find an example of Neil Nunes reading the shipping forecast at

https://soundcloud.com/jb_uk/neil-nunes-bbc-radio-4-and

Thanks. Having read some of the comments on this thread, that is nothing like what I expected at all.

Mostly it sounded like Radio 4 - with, all right, a hint of West Indian in the background. But anyone who has difficulty understanding it "due to a thick accent" needs to visit a hearing specialist pronto.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not one is "utterly bewildered".

Apart from the people who find it impossible to comprehend Mr Nunes, and they are foreigners anyway

Merely puzzled by some poorly pronounced words.

Which words in that broadcast puzzled you? I couldn't hear anything odd at all about "South Utsire", which seems to have caused the OP such terrible problems.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Mostly it sounded like Radio 4 - with, all right, a hint of West Indian in the background. But anyone who has difficulty understanding it "due to a thick accent" needs to visit a hearing specialist pronto.

It reminds me of the row over Wilfred Pickles reading the news during the war; the BBC used him as an announcer in the hope that his strong regional accent would baffle the Germans. There is no record of it doing any such thing, but it did rouse the ire of Home Service listeners, who complained - in very similar terms to the hysteria here - about his unintelligible tones and how disgraceful it was that regional accents should be heard on the air.

You can download one of his dreadful, impenetrable broadcasts from https://archive.org/download/WartimeRadio1941/1941-12-08BbcWilfredPicklesOnFarEastAttacks.mp3

 

[VicS]

Neal Nunes reading the shipping forecast needs elocution lessons, this job is too important to be ruled by political correctness.

I detest that bloke with a passion. If they're going to give air time to stupid accents, I'd turn it off whether it was brum, scouse, geordie or trinidad.

Leaving aside the slur, the point is that Nunes' accent is a strong accent, unfamiliar to the vast majority of English speakers. It is unrepresentative of any natural English dialect. It is the contrived consequence of a non-English speaker learning English. Aside from that, it is grating, unnatural, and irritating. I don't speak RP, but I don't want to hear anything other on national radio.

I have not heard Neil Nunes on the radio but I have found A clip to find out what the fuss is about.and he sounds just fine to me. Not a heavy accent at all

I don't get the dislike of Neal Nunes' accent and pronunciation it always strikes me as being very exact and clear; certainly more so than many of the presenters born in the UK but we don't hear complaints about them do we?

Absolutely .

https://soundcloud.com/jb_uk/neil-nunes-bbc-radio-4-and

 

[jhr]

Mostly it sounded like Radio 4 - with, all right, a hint of West Indian in the background. But anyone who has difficulty understanding it "due to a thick accent" needs to visit a hearing specialist pronto.

Pete

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wot he said.

 

[Sniper]

One of my abiding pleasures is to hear Neil Nunes delivering a continuity link into an episode of 'The Archers'.

 

[MoodySabre]

My S-i-L is Canadian and has just had a holiday in Scotland. She said she had no difficulty understanding everything that was said to her even though she does sometimes struggle when visiting us in Essex. Estuary English is not yet quite PR.

So I don't think Jerry's premise stands up although I don't like Nune's reading of the shipping forecast as it lacks a pleasant rhythym.

 

[JumbleDuck]

My S-i-L is Canadian and has just had a holiday in Scotland. She said she had no difficulty understanding everything that was said to her even though she does sometimes struggle when visiting us in Essex. Estuary English is not yet quite PR..

Canadian English is quite heavily Scottish-influenced, so that may have been part of it. I can't offhand think of any English accent with which I have had trouble, although plenty of dialect (word use as opposed to pronunciation) variations can be puzzling.

 

[bromleybysea]

I've got less than 50% hearing acuity and I can hear and understand Mr Nune's reading of the shipping forecast perfectly. I have listened to the clip above several times and can't for the life of me fathom what the OP is talking about. His pronunciation of the sea area names is accented but perfectly intelligible. He doesn't gabble through it like some continuity announcers do, and personally I find his mellifluous voice charming. I can only conclude that the OP is talking though his ar*e, though in what accent I have no idea.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've got less than 50% hearing acuity and I can hear and understand Mr Nune's reading of the shipping forecast perfectly. I have listened to the clip above several times and can't for the life of me fathom what the OP is talking about.

Perhaps as well as conductive and sensori-neural hearing loss, there should also be choleric hearing loss, also known as glukip ear, in which fury at a speaker's origins cause such a pounding of blood in the head that the speech itself is obscured?

Meanwhile, here is the encheferised start of the current Inshore Waters Forecast:

Generel Seetooeshun A shelloo erea ooff loo pressoore-a oofer zee Uneeted Keengdum veell cunteenooe-a tu feell. A noo erea ooff loo pressoore-a veell idge-a vestverds tooerds suoozeeest Inglund dooreeng Tooesdey. Bork Bork Bork!​

(http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/jbc/home/chef.html)

 

[Sybarite]

Sounds perfectly OK to me. I did like 'Fair Hile'! Anyone who finds that difficult to understand is welcome to try understanding some of the girls on Olympia radio, read at breakneck speed in difficult accents without the benefit of punctuation. Fortunately everything they say has already been read on navtex.

I agree whole heartedly with this. I think the phrasing of the text is much more important than the accent.

 

[jerrytug]

I was talking about last night's broadcast, so unfortunately JumbleDuck's link, and any minutes spent assessing it, were a waste of time.
I see some forumites are starting to get 'het up', colonial guilt perhaps?