Where is "Sowt Sarah"?

[jerrytug]

Neal Nunes reading the shipping forecast needs elocution lessons, this job is too important to be ruled by political correctness.

 

[elton]

I detest that bloke with a passion. If they're going to give air time to stupid accents, I'd turn it off whether it was brum, scouse, geordie or trinidad.

 

[VicMallows]

I detest that bloke with a passion. If they're going to give air time to stupid accents, I'd turn it off whether it was brum, scouse, geordie or trinidad.

Can only agree. Did anyone actually object to 'BBC English' ?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I detest that bloke with a passion. If they're going to give air time to stupid accents, I'd turn it off whether it was brum, scouse, geordie or trinidad.

RP is also an accent, and to many of us it's quite a stupid one.

 

[jerrytug]

RP is also an accent, and to many of us it's quite a stupid one.

Cultural relativism is a red herring in this case, the pronunciation of the shipping forecast ought to be standardised, just like the meanings of the words.

Everyone educated in the UK understands a nice clear BBC accent, no matter how much they may squirm in denial.

And what must it be like for Dutch or French mariners for example, shall we introduce a presenter with a thick Gorbals accent and a speech impediment, in the interests of diversity?

 

[elton]

RP is also an accent, and to many of us it's quite a stupid one.

Except that everyone understands RP whereas accents detract from the message, and many can't understand strong accents. In particular, many to whom English is a second language, have great difficulty understanding other speakers of different languages to whom English is a second language.

The BBC World service used to use RP only, because they said everyone understands it. Now they use any old rubbish.

 

[Sandgrounder]

I detest that bloke with a passion. If they're going to give air time to stupid accents, I'd turn it off whether it was brum, scouse, geordie or trinidad.

Tends to demonstrate, in my opinion, what a complete airhead you are. RP is no more than another accent, which in the case of many, if not most, of us who speak it, was expensively acquired. It is no clearer than most moderate regional accents. I don't get the dislike of Neal Nunes' accent and pronunciation it always strikes me as being very exact and clear; certainly more so than many of the presenters born in the UK but we don't hear complaints about them do we?

 

[aquaplane]

The sooner we cut off the south beast and set them adrift the better. Fer gawds sake Scotland don't get independence and leave the rest of us to the mercies of that loads of twats.

 

[elton]

Tends to demonstrate, in my opinion, what a complete airhead you are. RP is no more than another accent, which in the case of many, if not most, of us who speak it, was expensively acquired. It is no clearer than most moderate regional accents. I don't get the dislike of Neal Nunes' accent and pronunciation it always strikes me as being very exact and clear; certainly more so than many of the presenters born in the UK but we don't hear complaints about them do we?

Leaving aside the slur, the point is that Nunes' accent is a strong accent, unfamiliar to the vast majority of English speakers. It is unrepresentative of any natural English dialect. It is the contrived consequence of a non-English speaker learning English. Aside from that, it is grating, unnatural, and irritating. I don't speak RP, but I don't want to hear anything other on national radio.

 

[Sandgrounder]

Leaving aside the slur, the point is that Nunes' accent is a strong accent, unfamiliar to the vast majority of English speakers. It is unrepresentative of any natural English dialect. It is the contrived consequence of a non-English speaker learning English. Aside from that, it is grating, unnatural, and irritating. I don't speak RP, but I don't want to hear anything other on national radio.

Well, we'll have to agree to differ

 

[jerrytug]

Tends to demonstrate, in my opinion, what a complete airhead you are. RP is no more than another accent, which in the case of many, if not most, of us who speak it, was expensively acquired. It is no clearer than most moderate regional accents. I don't get the dislike of Neal Nunes' accent and pronunciation it always strikes me as being very exact and clear; certainly more so than many of the presenters born in the UK but we don't hear complaints about them do we?

Nunes' pronunciation frequently bears no resemblance to the words, read the thread title, that's why I started the thread. You may love his diction and even want to have his babies, but in objective analysis it is hard to understand, especially over the wind through a little radio speaker.
Standardisation is needed, you must agree that the shipping forecast is intended to be understood by non English speakers as well, I presume?
If you have ever tried to understand French or Belgian shipping forecasts over the VHF, imagine how much harder it would have been when read out by a person with an equally strong accent, don't worry,they have plenty; but clarity of communication, and thus safety at sea, take precedence over 'diversity'.
Oh by the way, I understand that Nunes is a black man from Trinidad, so could someone post that I am a racist, and get it over with? cheers Jerry

 

[grumpy_o_g]

What is RP?

 

[JumbleDuck]

What is RP?

Short for Received Pronunciation. An upper middle-class southern English accent from the 30s which the BBC used for many years in the happy but mistaken belief that since they were good cheps and understood other good cheps, everybody else ought to understand the same good cheps.

Everyone educated in the UK understands a nice clear BBC accent ...

Everybody educated in the UK understands regional and other (American, Jamaican, Australian, Seth Effrican ...) english accents too.

Except that everyone understands RP whereas accents detract from the message, and many can't understand strong accents.

Evidence for any of these statements?

The BBC World service used to use RP only, because they said everyone understands it. Now they use any old rubbish.

Or to put it another way, the World Service used to labour under the happy delusion that everyone in the world understood RP better than any other english accent before realising their mistake.

Leaving aside the slur, the point is that Nunes' accent is a strong accent, unfamiliar to the vast majority of English speakers. It is unrepresentative of any natural English dialect. It is the contrived consequence of a non-English speaker learning English.

Neil Nunes is a native english speaker who uses a natural english dialect.

 

[Coaster]

Neil Nunes is a native english speaker who uses a natural english dialect.

I sometimes find it hard to understand what he's saying, compared with most R4 announcers.

In a quiet location it may be easy to deduce exactly what is being said. However I listen to R4 in many different places, some of which are noisy - including on board our boat in poor weather. It's then when the lack of clarity in a thick voice becomes a real nuisance.

 

[jerrytug]

I sometimes find it hard to understand what he's saying, compared with most R4 announcers.

In a quiet location it may be easy to deduce exactly what is being said. However I listen to R4 in many different places, some of which are noisy - including on board our boat in poor weather. It's then when the lack of clarity in a thick voice becomes a real nuisance.

Exactly and compare him to David Miles (I think I've got that name right) who just has a naturally precise way of speaking.
As for accents, when someone suddenly starts speaking with a strong regional or Caribbean accent, which the listener does not share, the listener has to concentrate hard to 'tune in' his brain to the different vowel sounds.
It must be almost impossible for foreign sailors to comprehend Neal Nunes, and that must be wrong surely?

That's why shipping forecast pronunciation should be standardised, and BBC English should be the standard, and they must not continue using Neal Nunes who can't even get the words out properly.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I sometimes find it hard to understand what he's saying, compared with most R4 announcers.

Without wanting to sound picky, because I'm not, it would be interesting to know where you come from. Fishermen around rural Scotland probably wouldn't find a Jamaican accents any harder, or easier, to understand than RP. I have no problems with RP or indeed with understanding Mr Nunes.

 

[jerrytug]

Jumble Duck do you agree that NN might be much harder to understand for a Scandinavian, a Breton, a Canadian, or other foreign sailor who might be in dire need of a clear BBC shipping forecast, perhaps at extreme range on LW?

Someone who, unlike many Brits, hasn't picked up the trick of understanding English spoken in the many foreign accents which are one of the blessings of our multicultural rainbow-hued melting-pot?

If you do agree that this would be likely, then that's a vote for standardising the shipping forecasters' way of speaking.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Jumble Duck do you agree that NN might be much harder to understand for a Scandinavian, a Breton, a Canadian, or other foreign sailor who might be in dire need of a clear BBC shipping forecast, perhaps at extreme range on LW?

No, I do not. The idea that an upper class southern English accent must automatically be the most intelligible to foreigners (espcially if you SHOUT) is a pervasive one, and a wrong one. It seems to be based more on class perceptions of English speech than on any actual evidence.

What makes you think that a Breton would understand RP better than a Cornish accent? My German relatives assure me that Germans generally find Scottish accents easier to understand than English ones.

If you really want the shipping forecast to be broadcast in an English accent familiar to the maximum number of non-English speakers then the answer is easy; get an American to read it.

 

[jerrytug]

It's not about class, but precision and clarity. Just as one example among many, NN says 'sowt' for 'south', but the word ends in a th. The words thick and thin have totally different meanings to the words tick and tin.
And since when has there been a sea area called Sarah? I had to work out from the order, that he was actually pretending to say South Utsire!
That's not diversity it's a speech impediment or mickey-taking.

I see you location is Scotland. You have German relatives who understand the Scottish accent easily. Shome coincidence shurely?

Americans have their own extreme regional accents, and equivalents of BBC speech as well.

But it's the clarity of diction that matters and Mr Nunes fails, big-time. I presume he is having a laugh at his producers' expense, knowing they would not dare mention his voice for terror of being called racists.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's not about class, but precision and clarity. Just as one example among many, NN says 'sowt' for 'south', but the word ends in a th.

I have never had any difficulty in understanding the Irish shipping forecast, which regularly includes force trees from the sowt. They have tick fog there as well.