When is a boat "offshore"

[MonArk]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought a new (well 30 years old - Nauticat 33) boat and it needs some jobs doing per the survey. One relates to moving the main bilge pump to a more accessible location. I proposed to my insurers that I would do it next winter in case it turned out to be a major job.

I got an email late pm today to say that's fine so long as I don't go "offshore". I phoned them immediately but they have all gone home.

My boat is in Dartmouth and I want to sail it to Poole. Is the middle of Lyme Bay offshore? Is the definition linked to distance from the shore? If so how far? If anyone knows that would be great because if there is doubt she is going to be stuck in Dartmouth for a week whilst I find out.

Thanks

Nick

 

[greenalien]

Out of sight of land?

 

[wizard]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought a new (well 30 years old - Nauticat 33) boat and it needs some jobs doing per the survey. One relates to moving the main bilge pump to a more accessible location. I proposed to my insurers that I would do it next winter in case it turned out to be a major job.

I got an email late pm today to say that's fine so long as I don't go "offshore". I phoned them immediately but they have all gone home.

My boat is in Dartmouth and I want to sail it to Poole. Is the middle of Lyme Bay offshore? Is the definition linked to distance from the shore? If so how far? If anyone knows that would be great because if there is doubt she is going to be stuck in Dartmouth for a week whilst I find out.

Thanks

Nick

The definition will be stated by your insurance company, many companies vary on offshore, area covered etc.

 

[MonArk]

Out of sight of land

Hi Greenalien,

I wondered about that but thought a: how do I know without going to look since it depends on the height of the land and, of course b: what about the weather.

I know that in the middle of Lyme Bay you can't see Berry Head or the Bill but I have a feeling you can see Golden Cap. I looked on a chart and that would be about 18 miles away. It is 191 mtrs high apparently and my eye will be about 3.5 mtrs above sea level but its years since I left school to calculate whether that means I can see it.

It is typical arcane insurance language.

Rgds

Nick

 

[Jim@sea]

When I insured my last boat I asked how far I could take it and they said I was confined to a UK Coastal limit of 12 miles. I wanted to go from Whitehaven to the Isle of Man. And they said I would not be covered. But isn't the Isle of Man in the UK. It appears to be 25 miles from the Scottish coast to the Isle of Man, So can I assume that for the 1 mile between the end of the Scottish 12 miles and the start of the Isle of Man 12 mile limit I would not be insured. They also said that they treat the Isle of Man like the Channel Islands. Big Difference.

 

[MonArk]

Offshore

Hi Wizard,

I feared that would be the answer, it would be too much to expect an industry standard definition. Oh well. Looks like an extra weeks Dartmouth mooring fees. I can find out on Monday but then won't be able to move her until next weekend.

Rgds

 

[MonArk]

Offshore

I haven't had to worry about the definition before because my policy specifically includes Channel Islands and the channel coast between two points, Brest I think in the south and somewhere in Holland. Unfortunately this restriction is not as precise. I will see if the small print at home includes a definition.

 

[tom_sail]

Pretty sure it's 12 miles. I'm covered no more then 12 miles when single handing. The navionics app puts a purple line around the whole of the uk marking this 12 miles.

 

[marklucas]

When I insured my last boat I asked how far I could take it and they said I was confined to a UK Coastal limit of 12 miles. I wanted to go from Whitehaven to the Isle of Man. And they said I would not be covered. But isn't the Isle of Man in the UK. It appears to be 25 miles from the Scottish coast to the Isle of Man, So can I assume that for the 1 mile between the end of the Scottish 12 miles and the start of the Isle of Man 12 mile limit I would not be insured. They also said that they treat the Isle of Man like the Channel Islands. Big Difference.

The Isle of Man (just like the Channel Islands) is a British dependency and so not part of the UK (although you'd have to work hard to notice it).

 

[Flying Penguin]

Sorry, at the risk of being thick, is there any reason you couldn't just do the inside of Lyme bay? Weather looks relatively benign this weekend from what I can see. Stay within sight of land and do a slightly longer route, the lack of options between ex mouth and Weymouth wouldn't be so bad...

Need to time Portland Bill right but that should be it...?

Disclaimer: I've only done Lyme bay once so I don't claim any real local knowledge.

 

[Searush]

Why worry? Who's to know or care? It's not as if there are Police around photographing your number plate to report you. It's a TINY risk, so small as to be insignificant. There is no legal or moral requirement to even have insurance, except as far as some harbours require it - and you won't be offshore when in the harbours so will be covered.

Just do it.

BTW, my insurance classes the Irish Sea & English Channel with "Inshore Waters" so you would be covered anyway.

 

[MoodySabre]

Given that the Inshore Waters forecast is up to 12 miles out to sea then more than 12 miles is offshore n'estce pas? According to the man on the Clapham omnibus.

 

[Tranona]

Does the bilge pump work? I think they would have great difficulty in resisting a claim that was nothing to do with the bilge pump if that is the only thing that showed up on the survey - presumably you have another pump anyway.

The risk on a passage like that in the present weather is minimal - you are more likely to die of boredom chugging along at 6 knots into a light easterly breeze. You could easily do the whole passage less than 12 miles offshore provided you get your timing right to do the inside passage round the Bill.

Have a great trip.

 

[Seajet]

MonArk,

this sounds like an insurance company clause to get out of any liability at all !

The normal offshore / cross Channel coverage is Brest - Elbe, but do check for singlehanding, this may well be daylight only, so check how 'daylight' is defined.

Sounds to me like you should consider changing insurance; I've been with St Margarets - now 'Haven group' for 40 years, and though I've never had to make a claim, I've found them sensible about surveys, ie not pushing for them; I had a survey, then a couple of years later they asked for another - when I said 'you're joking' and explained the cost & hassle, they said 'OK, no more suveys' !

Boat valued over £10,000.

Good luck with your trip, and BTW I agree, Golden Cap should be in sight in the middle of Lyme Bay if the vis' is OK; watch out for lobster pots, the long handled 'lopper' pruning jobs must have been made with Portland Bill's idiot fishermen in mind !

 

[MonArk]

Inshore route

I had thought about going inshore but didn't fancy the extra time.

I think the other comments about it being a minimal risk are right, although having had this exchange I will probably be proved wrong!

You are right about the chugging bit I am afraid, the wind will be right on the nose and I shan't be bothering to tack in to it - hence the motor sailer in the first place I admit.

Thanks all. At least the thoughts took me away from work and into much more pleasurable veins.

Rgds

Nick

 

[Seajet]

Nick,

to try to cut a long story short I once set off from Dartmouth for Weymouth with a great forecast, in fact motoring the first part so went North into the bay & committed to the inshore passage; then the wind built up to a W 6-7 and we had to slalom between the overfalls...

The hectic bit was relatively OK but the hours going towards the line of white water breaking the horizon were the most awful frightening time I've ever had.

I now always go outside The Race and slant off for Studland / Poole.

 

[Capt Popeye]

why not Do something about the Bilge Pump before you tak the trip ?

if it looks like a difficult or time consuming task to move the original one, add another Bilge Pump that is easily accesable, and fits in with their requests, better safe than sorry !

and its Job Done,

 

[PhillM]

Make a portable pump for the journey.

Buy a new bilge pump, a decent lentgh of pipe and a 12v battery.

Rig it up so that you have a portable bilge pump.

Lifht a sole board, insert pump, stick pipe through compionway and there you go - bingle in the desired place.

If you dont want to sail like that, have it all ready to insert if needed.

Everything covered, everyone happy.

I'm planning similar using a spare pump I have but instead of a new battery I'm going to use a cig plug as I already have a spare socket.

 

[ukmctc]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought a new (well 30 years old - Nauticat 33) boat and it needs some jobs doing per the survey. One relates to moving the main bilge pump to a more accessible location. I proposed to my insurers that I would do it next winter in case it turned out to be a major job.

I got an email late pm today to say that's fine so long as I don't go "offshore". I phoned them immediately but they have all gone home.

My boat is in Dartmouth and I want to sail it to Poole. Is the middle of Lyme Bay offshore? Is the definition linked to distance from the shore? If so how far? If anyone knows that would be great because if there is doubt she is going to be stuck in Dartmouth for a week whilst I find out.

Thanks

Nick

I believe its 11 miles in the direction of away, thats away from any land. Thats what I was told with regards to a liferaft and its contents.

 

[onesea]

Personally I would do it...

Although if you want to be insured I would suggest that you check and double check...

Phoning round for insurance I have bumped into some funny things:

Most recently Swift Sure will not cover you if you are out of the country for more than 60 days a year (total).

There was the travel insurance that insured you on any boat in territorial waters, "12nm that should be fine" says I "NO 1 Mile" says her (She did not know if it was nautical or statue but would find out). There followed a little bit of a discussion in the end it came down to if you want OUR insurance you use OUR definitions.

There is a a case where some one got a 10% increase in insurance because they tried IVF 6 months earlier and where not pregnant.

All holiday insurance does not work unless your journey starts at your own front door, you cannot start a holiday abroad or from a place of work (PLEASE Prove me wrong on this one ).

Some holiday insurance covers your family. Yet they have to live with you, meaning if you are a farther with access (non residential parent if you know the jargon), they do not live with you so you are not covered even though they are your son or daughter.

Check and double check is all I can say...