What's the fascination with long keels?

[DoubleEnder]

But has an interesting point about mortality. Long-keel yacht prices have crashed. Bit like 19th Century English watercolours and brown furniture.

Bargains to be had

 

[Tranona]

Bargains to be had

Only if it is what you want. "bargains" suggest low demand. Real problem if any work needed as cost is out of proportion to value. Then work does not get done, value falls further and boats will end up in the corner of the yard waiting for the recycling business to get going.

See article in this month's PBO.

 

[Babylon]

See article in this month's PBO.

What does it say?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Umm.. After a very long time (42 years) with long keeled gaff cutters, I have just bought a "moderate fin and skeg" design from the 1960's - an Ohlson 38. The shape "looked right" to my eyes, whereas the shape of some modern "long keel" boats like the Vancouvers, the Island Packets and the Frances 26 all looked like fin keel boats with added wetted surface.

I've sailed an Olsen 38. Lovely boats with predictable handling that sail well.

 

[FWB]

I've sailed an Olsen 38. Lovely boats with predictable handling that sail well.

Possibly because they are virtually long keelers

 

[john_morris_uk]

Possibly because they are virtually long keelers

I think you'll find an Ohlsen 38 is a fin and skeg with a good forefoot.

We can both roll eyes!

But I assume you were teasing.

 

[FWB]

I think you'll find an Ohlsen 38 is a fin and skeg with a good forefoot.

We can both roll eyes!

But I assume you were teasing.

The Ohlson 38 is a proper boat. More akin to a long keeler than a modern bolt on fin. So no wonder you consider them to be "Lovely boats with predictable handling that sail well"
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1817

 

[john_morris_uk]

The Ohlson 38 is a proper boat. More akin to a long keeler than a modern bolt on fin. So no wonder you consider them to be "Lovely boats with predictable handling that sail well"
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1817

I get the impression you haven't followed my arguments in this whole thread.

Or are we going to get into the game of people saying that any fin keeled boat that has decent manners is really a long keeled boat in disguise. Are we going to start suggesting some of the 70's Nicholson's with fin keels are really 'long keeled'? How about a Sigma 33(C) or a Contessa 32. Both have lovely sailing characters but both are fin...! What about some of the Swan's or Malo's or Sweden yachts. Some are racier than others but choose carefully and you can get one with impeccable manners that will heave to, lie gently at anchor, tracks well and doesn't slam.

Or shall we discuss the manners of Gypsy Moth VI with its long keel that sailed like a dog? I can name a few others....

 

[FWB]

I get the impression you haven't followed my arguments in this whole thread.

Or are we going to get into the game of people saying that any fin keeled boat that has decent manners is really a long keeled boat in disguise. Are we going to start suggesting some of the 70's Nicholson's with fin keels are really 'long keeled'? How about a Sigma 33(C) or a Contessa 32. Both have lovely sailing characters but both are fin...!

No I'm just saying (again) that the Ohlson 38 is more akin to to a long keeler than a modern fin.

 

[john_morris_uk]

No I'm just saying (again) that the Ohlson 38 is more akin to to a long keeler than a modern fin.

If you want to say its not a fin keel and it makes you happy, then fill your boots. I suggest that picture doesn't tell the whole story. Try looking at the sections...

What I will readily agree to is that she was part of the development of more modern yacht design. She was from an age where designers realised that they could make any shape they wanted with this modern GRP (not being stuck with long bits of wood that didn't lend themselves to wine glass hulls with keels that can be made into NACA sections and bolted on.)

 

[FWB]

If you want to say its not a fin keel and it makes you happy, then fill your boots. I suggest that picture doesn't tell the whole story. Try looking at the sections...

What I will readily agree to is that she was part of the development of more modern yacht design. She was from an age where designers realised that they could make any shape they wanted with this modern GRP (not being stuck with long bits of wood that didn't lend themselves to wine glass hulls with keels that can be made into NACA sections and bolted on.)

I didn't deny it was a fin keeler I said it was more akin to a long keeler than a modern fin.

 

[doug748]

I didn't deny it was a fin keeler I said it was more akin to a long keeler than a modern fin.

Seems easy enough to grasp.

Even in 2012 I worried about this thread. The title seemed to suggest we had been under assault by evangelical long keel sailors. I hadn't noticed it if we were.

A better question might be: Why are we fascinated by cruising boats that look like this:


Courtesy Beneteau


That keel must be some use on a cruising boat because people seem to by buying them.

But no, I won't be starting a new thread on the matter :nonchalance:

 

[john_morris_uk]

Seems easy enough to grasp.

Even in 2012 I worried about this thread. The title seemed to suggest we had been under assault by evangelical long keel sailors. I hadn't noticed it if we were.

A better question might be: Why are we fascinated by cruising boats that look like this:

View attachment 60820
Courtesy Beneteau


That keel must be some use on a cruising boat because people seem to by buying them.

But no, I won't be starting a new thread on the matter :nonchalance:

I think some of the posts extolling the virtues of long keels have been evangelical in their zeal. I just wanted people to be abut more open minded.

 

[lw395]

Seems easy enough to grasp.

Even in 2012 I worried about this thread. The title seemed to suggest we had been under assault by evangelical long keel sailors. I hadn't noticed it if we were.

A better question might be: Why are we fascinated by cruising boats that look like this:

View attachment 60820
Courtesy Beneteau


That keel must be some use on a cruising boat because people seem to by buying them.

But no, I won't be starting a new thread on the matter :nonchalance:

Hopefully because the boat goes well and the owner enjoys sailing it.

 

[Robin]

This one worked just fine for me in the 'skinny' waters hereabouts, shoal draft yet still 'stiff', closewinded too and would do as told ahead or astern:encouragement: That is a wing keel BTW, poor picture, 5ft draught on a 36 foot boat.

 

[BobPrell]

I think some of the posts extolling the virtues of long keels have been evangelical in their zeal. I just wanted people to be abut more open minded.

You could begin with yourself.

In the OP you asked what people liked about long keels, calling their liking fascination, which rather telegraphs your own view, to which you are entitled BTW.

They tell you what they perceive as qualities, and you relentlessly tell them they are mistaken.

You have not given an inch since the start.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You could begin with yourself.

In the OP you asked what people liked about long keels, calling their liking fascination, which rather telegraphs your own view, to which you are entitled BTW.

They tell you what they perceive as qualities, and you relentlessly tell them they are mistaken.

You have not given an inch since the start.

Have you read all my posts on the subject?

 

[BobPrell]

Have you read all my posts on the subject?

Yes.

Since the thread started, and looked thru them all again each time the thread was rebooted.

And my overall impression is that you are pursuing your rebuttal of views "extolling the virtues" with zeal second to none of the "evangelists".

I say again, you did ask for their views.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Yes.

Since the thread started, and looked thru them all again each time the thread was rebooted.

And my overall impression is that you are pursuing your rebuttal of views "extolling the virtues" with zeal second to none of the "evangelists".

I say again, you did ask for their views.

You will have seen that I freely acknowledge that long keels have some desirable characteristics then.

You will also have seen that I have sailed and owned boats with long keels.

My original premise was to try and persuade those who are looking for a boat to 'sail their dream' that they needn't buy into the 'it must have a long keel' arguments. Whilst people might choose a long keeled boat (available, fits their budget etc) my whole raison d'etre for this thread was to try and open people minds to see that not all fin keeled boats are the same and some are very suitable and have all the desirable characteristics waxed lyrical about by those who insist long keels are wonderful.

My personal view is that long keels can be great but fin can be great too.

If I'm guilty of being zealous in my arguent then so be it. I still think it's an argument worth fighting for.

 

[Poignard]

(...) I still think it's an argument worth fighting for.

Isn't this yachting's equivalent of the "how many angels can dance on the head of the pin" argument; and just as pointless? (The argument I mean, not the pin ). An interesting subject but hardly worth fighting about (unlike, say Brexit or the rule of law ).