What was Patrick Laine’s previous craft? 😊

[XDC]

I remember the Bavaria, the Bongo and now the RM but this one??

 

[Fr J Hackett]

His latest video popped up on my feeds just which is where the pic came from. I took a while to warm to him but now I find his stuff very good and entertaining I suppose because it seems to me that he sails to challenge himself something that gels with me. He's looking a little older and I notice he is often out of breath so perhaps is health is not what it was after his operation.
His choice of boats is very interesting especially considering where he sails to ( a bit spartan for me) Bong and now RM both fast for their size. Will be a good series to watch.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Super-Etendard

 

[wonkywinch]

It had been ages since he posted a video so a few days ago I emailed him to check he was OK. He said he was fine and had just sailed from France to Ireland.

 

[MAGTRAD]

I really enjoy watching his videos particularly as he sails single handed. Also noticed that he hadn't posted for a while so glad to hear he's ok!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

 

[bignick]

I just watched that. nice boat.

 

[Gixer]

I do enjoy his videos. I was surprised when he sold his Bavaria for that small super fast boat, looked really uncomfortable.
This new one is nice, its wood covered in glass which is interesting.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I do enjoy his videos. I was surprised when he sold his Bavaria for that small super fast boat, looked really uncomfortable.
This new one is nice, its wood covered in glass which is interesting.

I am not so sure it's going to be much more comfortable than the Bongo, at least it's got a working bog.

 

[Laser310]

I do enjoy his videos. I was surprised when he sold his Bavaria for that small super fast boat, looked really uncomfortable.
This new one is nice, its wood covered in glass which is interesting.

Mostly, RM hulls are not covered in glass

The hulls are built with epoxy-impregnated marine plywood.

A kevlar sheath is offered as an option on new boats.., and his may have it, but it seems most buyers do not opt for it.

Of course, his might have it, but unless he has said that it does, I wouldn't assume that it does.

The deck and cabin house of recent models is GRP, but lined inside with plywood. They use GRP here so they can get more pleasing shapes than would be possible with plywood.

 

[Daydream believer]

Are RM still going? I thought that they had financial issues following some structural problems with the keels & structure of the hull on one model.
They may have been resurected though. I saw a review of the 10 metre version & whilst it was fast off the wind, the reviewer pointed out that a Hanse 311 was easily passing it upwind. I think that the French only sail down wind
Lot to be said for that ---if you can get the wind to play ball, that is

 

[Gixer]

Sorry, you are right. He does say epoxy-impregnated marine plywood.
That didn't compute in my brain as I haven't heard of that method before.

 

[Laser310]

Are RM still going? I thought that they had financial issues following some structural problems with the keels & structure of the hull on one model.
They may have been resurected though. I saw a review of the 10 metre version & whilst it was fast off the wind, the reviewer pointed out that a Hanse 311 was easily passing it upwind. I think that the French only sail down wind
Lot to be said for that ---if you can get the wind to play ball, that is

Yes - still going. RM Yachts | Constructeur de voiliers de croisière en bois

Two new models this year.

They were bought out of bankruptcy by Grand large Yachting - the French firm that bought Gunboat, and also owns Garcia and Allures.

they had a problem with the swinging keel versions of the RM 1270 - two sank. A bolt was undersized. The bold is only loaded when the keel was up, and I think both boats sank on the mooring when the bolt sheared, and the keel swung down violently, damaging the hull. At least that's what I learned.

All the other boats had new bigger bolts installed

I'm actually interested in buying a 1270, but probably the fixed keel version.

I think mostly the boats are not that fast upwind, but are pretty good off the wind.

I have been on a 1270 at the dock. they seem very comfortable, with very well though out ergonomics for sailing and living. very pleasant boats to be aboard.

Many RM owners are highly experienced racers and cruisers. Nobody buys them to race, but a few Vendee Globe sailors own them as their family cruising boat. The one I viewed is owned by a 2-time Vendee sailor.

 

[Daydream believer]

I thought that they were lifting keel & bilge keel versions. Or is it that the bilge keels are not fitted to the larger yachts.

 

[Laser310]

I thought that they were lifting keel & bilge keel versions. Or is it that the bilge keels are not fitted to the larger yachts.

I have not looked in detail at all their models, but the ones I was interested in came in three versions:

Swinging keel

Bi-keel - this is two pretty high aspect L-shaped bulb keels

normal T-shaped bulb keel

on these models there is a further choice of one or two rudders.

the 1270 - 40ft - was available in all three keel versions

They make a bigger boat - the 1380 at 43ft, and the website indicates that bi-keel and swinging keel versions are available but does not mention the single bulb keel

 

[geem]

Yes - still going. RM Yachts | Constructeur de voiliers de croisière en bois

Two new models this year.

They were bought out of bankruptcy by Grand large Yachting - the French firm that bought Gunboat, and also owns Garcia and Allures.

they had a problem with the swinging keel versions of the RM 1270 - two sank. A bolt was undersized. The bold is only loaded when the keel was up, and I think both boats sank on the mooring when the bolt sheared, and the keel swung down violently, damaging the hull. At least that's what I learned.

All the other boats had new bigger bolts installed

I'm actually interested in buying a 1270, but probably the fixed keel version.

I think mostly the boats are not that fast upwind, but are pretty good off the wind.

I have been on a 1270 at the dock. they seem very comfortable, with very well though out ergonomics for sailing and living. very pleasant boats to be aboard.

Mostly RM owners are highly experienced racers and cruisers. Nobody buys them to race, but a few Vendee Globe sailors own them as their family cruising boat. The one I viewed is owned by a 2-time Vendee sailor.

Most boats are fast off the wind
All those chines which make plywood construction easy really do no favours for speed up wind.
I love the Utube sales blurb that says how super light plywood construction is and compares it to aluminium and grp but fails to compare it to to the other composite construction, foam core. As used in performance boats universally for lightness and stiffness. I would be nervous of longevity of the ply even though its epoxy impregnated. How deep does epoxy impregnate? Any minor damage on the hull may introduce moisture. What happens then?
I would be happier with the hull wrapped in grp or kevlar but not simply ply and epoxy. I wonder what the second hand values will be like in a few years once a few uncaring owners have allowed rot to get in and the story gets about

 

[Daydream believer]

I wonder what the second hand values will be like in a few years once a few uncaring owners have allowed rot to get in and the story gets about

Experience tells me that the value of any boat will fall if it is not properly maintained. I would have thought timber to be easier than GRP to service. Imagine the difference between splicing in some ply & dealing with hidden balsa cored structures.
I bought a clinker wooden yacht with some rot & sprung planks. I had the hull sand blasted inside & out & the operator blew holes right through it. They were relatively easy repairs, as splicing & bonding is a simple task in timber & was a stress free relaxing task.

 

[geem]

Experience tells me that the value of any boat will fall if it is not properly maintained. I would have thought timber to be easier than GRP to service. Imagine the difference between splicing in some ply & dealing with hidden balsa cored structures.
I bought a clinker wooden yacht with some rot & sprung planks. I had the hull sand blasted inside & out & the operator blew holes right through it. They were relatively easy repairs, as splicing & bonding is a simple task in timber & was a stress free relaxing task.

I couldn't agree less. Grp is super easy to repair. It doesn't rot so has a massive advantage over wood. Your argument that grp is harder to repair is based on the balsa core. That happens to be wood. I mentioned foam core in my post not balsa. GRP essentially doesn't need any maintenance except cosmetic.

 

[Laser310]

Most boats are fast off the wind
All those chines which make plywood construction easy really do no favours for speed up wind.
I love the Utube sales blurb that says how super light plywood construction is and compares it to aluminium and grp but fails to compare it to to the other composite construction, foam core. As used in performance boats universally for lightness and stiffness. I would be nervous of longevity of the ply even though its epoxy impregnated. How deep does epoxy impregnate? Any minor damage on the hull may introduce moisture. What happens then?
I would be happier with the hull wrapped in grp or kevlar but not simply ply and epoxy. I wonder what the second hand values will be like in a few years once a few uncaring owners have allowed rot to get in and the story gets about

As a potential buyer, i share some of these concerns.

But they are not using plywood because it is easy or cheap - they use it because they think it's better. Everyone who sails on the boats remarks on the thermal and sound insulation properties compared with GRP, even when GRP is foam cored. So - less condensation, less mildew, and calmness - noise, especially engine noise, but even the noise of sailing can make an environment less relaxing on a long passage.

The boats are not less expensive than GRP boats generally.

As I said - Kevlar wrap is an option.

The claim that they are light is not actually correct - they are in line with average GRP boats, and heavier than the lighter ones. It's really impossible to put much faith in displacement specs from manufacturers though..., and these boats don't get raced much so measured weights from certificates are not common, and where they do exist, we don't know what was on the boat and what wasn't. These boats are cruising boats and they are equipped that way: generators, bow thrusters, lots of chain - none of the boats i race on have any of that stuff.

Because I am shopping for a second-hand boat, I can tell you that there is a good market for them. I recently lost one...

And, by the way, I have seen plenty of foam cored GRP boats with significant delamination and water intrusion; they are not immune from this.

The main thing with RM's, for some buyers at least, is that the boats are firstly sailor's boats. I think the fact that Vendee sailors buy them for their cruising boat is evidence enough of this.

This is a requirement for me; the boat has to be fun to sail - i need a cruising boat that I will get pleasure out of sailing. No tanks... So, there will be a compromise.

The other thing is the luminous interior with 360 degree vision. I prefer this kind of interior - bright and mostly white - over the traditional wood interior found on a lot of cruising boats, particularly the better ones. Other than catamarans, I don't see much out there that compares with these boats.

I really struggle to find other cruising boats that I think will work as well for me. I've looked a lot at X-Yachts for example, and i've sailed/raced them extensively. They just don't work as well...

Still, i may end up with a more traditional boat.

 

[geem]

As a potential buyer, i share some of these concerns.

But they are not using plywood because it is easy or cheap - they use it because they think it's better. Everyone who sails on the boats remarks on the thermal and sound insulation properties compared with GRP, even when GRP is foam cored. So - less condensation, less mildew, and calmness - noise, especially engine noise, but even the noise of sailing can make an environment less relaxing on a long passage.

The boats are not less expensive than GRP boats generally.

As I said - Kevlar wrap is an option.

The claim that they are light is not actually correct - they are in line with average GRP boats, and heavier than the lighter ones. It's really impossible to put much faith in displacement specs from manufacturers though..., and these boats don't get raced much so measured weights from certificates are not common, and where they do exist, we don't know what was on the boat and what wasn't. These boats are cruising boats and they are equipped that way: generators, bow thrusters, lots of chain - none of the boats i race on have any of that stuff.

Because I am shopping for a second-hand boat, I can tell you that there is a good market for them. I recently lost one...

And, by the way, I have seen plenty of foam cored GRP boats with significant delamination and water intrusion; they are not immune from this.

The main thing with RM's, for some buyers at least, is that the boats are firstly sailor's boats. I think the fact that Vendee sailors buy them for their cruising boat is evidence enough of this.

This is a requirement for me; the boat has to be fun to sail - i need a cruising boat that I will get pleasure out of sailing. No tanks... So, there will be a compromise.

The other thing is the luminous interior with 360 degree vision. I prefer this kind of interior - bright and mostly white - over the traditional wood interior found on a lot of cruising boats, particularly the better ones. Other than catamarans, I don't see much out there that compares with these boats.

I really struggle to find other cruising boats that I think will work as well for me. I've looked a lot at X-Yachts for example, and i've sailed/raced them extensively. They just don't work as well...

Still, i may end up with a more traditional boat.

I like them because they are different. Not your run of the mill AWB. I don't buy some of the sales blurb. Ply is not as good an thermal insulator as foam.

Our boats hull is 1" foam cored then lined with teak tongue and groove where its visible. All lockers are lined with ply so you cant see hull anywhere inside the boat. Its very quiet and thermally stable. The deck is also foam core. It costs a lot of money to construct in foam core composite. I suspect far more than ply. Well built foam core these days is vacuum bagged but it doesn't come cheap. Modern production boats are generally single skin grp because.
that's the cheapest build. Ecks are cored with balsa because it is more tolerant to poor practise than foam core and its cheaper.

What our boat gains in light weight from the core is lost in the internal fit out being half a Burmese rain forest. It's also not helped with 6mm of grp either side of the core. The hull is super stiff though. A huge benefit of foam core construction that ply and grp can't complete with.

I really like the 360deg all round view of the RMs by comparison, our saloon is like a trip down to the basement. The flip side is that the saloon seats are level with the water line so long passages are excellent sleeping on the full length saloon seats above the keel. You really feel very little motion and its so quiet even in rough weather.

Every boat is a compromise and experience steers our requirements in a boat. If the RM is for you, go for it