What Trailer Sailor

[yachtorion]

Amazed the thread has got this far with no mention of the Anderson 22!

Great boat, much more offshore capability than what I bought, but won't dry out except in mud. So not ideal for my purpose, which may perhaps be why the esteemed proponent of these vessels and others didn't mention them here.

If I'd been looking for a more trailable replacement for my old Hurley 22 it could have been perfect. I miss that boat.

 

[steveeasy]

what about a Dehler 22. really good build qualities, great looks. water ballast system so just under 1000 kg. no big car needed.

Steveeasy

 

[Seajet]

Great boat, much more offshore capability than what I bought, but won't dry out except in mud. So not ideal for my purpose, which may perhaps be why the esteemed proponent of these vessels and others didn't mention them here.

If I'd been looking for a more trailable replacement for my old Hurley 22 it could have been perfect. I miss that boat.

Yachtailsa,

no the reason I didn't mention the A22 is that its not a trailer sailer; too big & heavy for most vehicles to tow with the 4 wheel trailer required, and too complex to rig & de-rig quickly.

Trailable as in relocating for different cruising grounds for a holiday maybe or home for the winter - but then one runs into how to maintain the keel plate, like all lift keelers - as opposed to a mooring all summer and high trestles all winter, like wot I advocate.

 

[aquaplane]

Yachtailsa,

no the reason I didn't mention the A22 is that its not a trailer sailer; too big & heavy for most vehicles to tow with the 4 wheel trailer required, and too complex to rig & de-rig quickly.

Trailable as in relocating for different cruising grounds for a holiday maybe or home for the winter - but then one runs into how to maintain the keel plate, like all lift keelers - as opposed to a mooring all summer and high trestles all winter, like wot I advocate.

But some Trail Sailors would happily have an Anderson 22 as they already tow heavier boats. Just because you wouldn't trail sail an Anderson 22, or any other boat, doesn't mean that an Anderson 22 wouldn't make a decent trail sailer.

They are a 22' boat, they aren't big and they aren't complicated. It's just a boat, an old boat at that.

 

[Seajet]

As I've only had mine for 38 years and you have had zero, you obviously know best.

I thought I'd towed several Andersons and a lot of sailing dinghies to places like the Lake District and Falmouth, so able to judge whether I fancy trailer-sailing an A22 on one or two tides etc, but that must have been you, not me at all...:encouragement:

 

[l'escargot]

...They are a 22' boat, they aren't big and they aren't complicated. It's just a boat, an old boat at that.

:encouragement:

 

[Seajet]

Yes well we know how much I vaue your opinion, snail.

To explain to people big on opinions who have never even set foot on an Anderson 22, mine and other well set up ones have quadruple deck organisers each side - all used, and quite a few other lines.

Couple that with a 26' rig, the electrics through it, etc, and only a fool would say it's suitable for short term trailer sailing.

As for whether it's an ' old ' boat, well the race results on the East and Scottish Coasts this year seem pretty contemporary ( and no I haven't raced this year ).

I must say I found it enough hassle trailing an Osprey dinghy to Somerset and Falmouth on various occasions - but of course you know all about that...

Now snail & aquaskid, how about contributing usefully to this thread about trailer sailing, as you know so much about it ?

 

[l'escargot]

Yes well we know how much I vaue your opinion, snail.

To explain to people big on opinions who have never even set foot on an Anderson 22, mine and other well set up ones have quadruple deck organisers each side - all used, and quite a few other lines.

Couple that with a 26' rig, the electrics through it, etc, and only a fool would say it's suitable for short term trailer sailing.

As for whether it's an ' old ' boat, well the race results on the East and Scottish Coasts this year seem pretty contemporary ( and no I haven't raced this year ).

I must say I found it enough hassle trailing an Osprey dinghy to Somerset and Falmouth on various occasions - but of course you know all about that...

Now snail & aquaskid, how about contributing usefully to this thread about trailer sailing, as you know so much about it ?

So are you arguing that they aren't 22', they are big, they are complicated and they aren't old? I would think they are all rather inescapable facts, don't you? Just like they have rather small side decks...:encouragement:

 

[Triassic]

.... well set up ones have quadruple deck organisers each side - all used, and quite a few other lines.

Couple that with a 26' rig, the electrics through it, etc, and only a fool would say it's suitable for short term trailer sailing......

I think that all rather well depends on how well "set up" it is.

Once the mast is up (around 36' by the way) I have five lines that need reeving from the mast back to clutches at the cockpit, plus jib sheets, a main sheet, mast electrics, and a boom to attach. I have managed the entire job from pulling up off the road to sailing away from the slip in under 30 minutes, although usually it's around 45 minutes to an hour, especially if I have someone "helping" me! The return trip is generally a little bit longer as it's nice to wash things and put them away neatly. I don't think spending an hour either end of a sail is to much of an ask if it means you can keep the boat at home, avoid antifouling and go sailing pretty much anywhere in the country (or Europe for that matter) without having to spend weeks or months getting the boat there beforehand. Actually if you do simple maths I'm willing to bet I spend less time each year launching and recovering than you do organising a haul out and bottom clean/repaint!

Sailing is an individual thing and we all have different priorities, and I think calling people a fool because they may not share yours is a bit rash.

 

[PeteCooper]

To explain to people big on opinions who have never even set foot on an Anderson 22, mine and other well set up ones have quadruple deck organisers each side - all used, and quite a few other lines.

Couple that with a 26' rig, the electrics through it, etc, and only a fool would say it's suitable for short term trailer sailing.

The quadruple deck organiser is irrelevant ... my 18 ft trailer sailor has 4 plus organisers on each side.
The mast size is irrelevant ... my wee boat has a 27 ft mast.
Most people, not me I hasten to add, would have no qualms about using mine as a true trailer sailor, and in the trailer sailor association there are lots of people who regularly trail boats of 22 or 23 ft for a weekends sailing.

 

[aquaplane]

As I've only had mine for 38 years and you have had zero, you obviously know best.

I thought I'd towed several Andersons and a lot of sailing dinghies to places like the Lake District and Falmouth, so able to judge whether I fancy trailer-sailing an A22 on one or two tides etc, but that must have been you, not me at all...:encouragement:

You seem to have a thing against trail sailing, I think it's a good idea if it's what folk want to do.

I don't need to have owned any 22' boat to realise it's about the right size to trail sail., it's not about knowing best, after all you seem to corner that market.

Trail sailing isn't dinghy sailing for a tide or two. I mainly went for one or two week cruises in my First 18 and Copland Harrier 20' boats. I did have the odd long weekend but it was too much effort for me, but some love it.

There is no need to start personal attacks on folk who don't agree with your ideas of what's right Seasquirt

 

[Seajet]

You stated personal attacks saying my boat is old, easy to trail and simple despite knowing my experience with the boat.

You were wrong on those, and more importantly a lot of people's idea of trailer sailing really is ' take a sizeable boat, dip it in , go for a sail, nip out, drive home ' - Really !

I know this is not the way to go even with a Mirror dinghy, but in my experience this is what novice people mean by trailer sailing, they think it's a way of avoiding moorings, quite possibly - I mean this seriously - when they think clubs are elitist and expensive, which is simply not the case if only they'd ask about it.

I have said repeatedly, if people are that keen on some sort of major relocation for a holiday, an Anderson 22 would be trailable, but I know from several experiences - with Range Rovers & other peoples' A22's - even the drive is not a relaxing experience, before all the hassle of;

finding a free slipway while the tide suits when everyone else has the same idea

a slip without a drop off the end catching the trailer

somewhere secure to leave the boat while parking the car and trailer

somewhere secure to park car and trailer

travel back to boat

rig boat

go for a sail

do the lot again in reverse


- even for several days that would be exhausting and nonsensical - and actually getting all those secure bits and free slipway would be nigh on a miracle.

Coupled to this, people thinking trailer sailing means ' home for the winter ' and forgetting lift keel maintainence - any lift keeler - and the whole idea falls apart.

Got a cruiser - even a lot smaller than 22' - get a mooring and a proper winter set-up; both are more easily & cheaply available now than they have ever been in my 54 yr old lifetime, for sure.

Even people with sailing dinghies usually work out pretty quickly it's best to join a club and leave the boat ready to go on a trolley, again if one really must relocate for race meets or holidays, then use a trailer, but not otherwise.

Another fairly serious factor I forgot to mention earlier is where does one store and maintain the trailer when it's not in use ?

A chum with a ( rarely used ) A22 trailer has had the sense to always avoid the trailer being immersed even in fresh water let alone salt, and borrows a field for the trailer but that's another headache; at least dinghies can have combi trailer / trolleys but very few cruisers do, and they further increase launch / recovery draft.

 

[ghostlymoron]

There's a difference between trailer sailing which I understand is trailing a boat from home to sea, sailing for a day or more, and returning home. The other option is what I do which is storing my boat at home over winter and trailing once a year to my drying mooring and back. Once there I can sail whenever I want without re-rigging which is a drawback to option one.
For both options you need a boat light enough to be towed by your car, droppable mast and easy to rig. I've had Leisure 17/VW Golf, Mirror Offshore/Audi A4 and now Leisure 20/Audi A4. Daily trail sail doesn't appeal too much rigging involved, annual trail sail suits fine on economic grounds but if I was wealthier, I would go for the Marina option but not larger boat.

 

[fredrussell]

I bought my swing keel Jaguar 23 with the express intention of towing it to the farthest corners of this country to sail. It came with an A-frame to aid stepping the mast and this was one of the things that attracted me to the boat. What i hadn't considered was that the near two tonne weight of boat on trailer did not a pleasant towing experience make. It was within the legal towing weight of my van (VW T4) but you were damn sure of the weight back there at all times. Stepping the mast was do-able by one, but with any sort of breeze present the whole operation was a bit fraught to say the least, even with the A-frame. The mast was heavy and it took two to stow it well for transportation, and the numerous lines and electronics complicated matters no end come mast stepping time.

The best aspect of being trailable to me was getting it back to my house for winter - much better than working on it in a yard somewhere and I got loads done by just popping out there for a few hours once in a while.

I would agree with comments made my Seajet and others that just being able to fit a boat on a trailer does not automatically make it a good trailer sailer. The boat we make at work (Demon Yachts Kite) weighs under 800kg (21ft gaff rig) has a lightweight and very easy and quick to step carbon rig and can be towed easily on a single axle trailer. That to me is what a trailer sailer should be.

 

[Poey50]

What is a good trailer sailer? Presumably that depends entirely on how you define 'trailer sailer'. The above seems to be an argument about definition.

When I came to buy our first boat (I've only had two not counting dinghies) I had joined the Trail Sail Association and probably the most popular boat used there was an Etap 22i. After what I thought was a fair bit of research I bought one expecting it to be good for popping to the coast for a weekend with a young family for a happy sail. I tried it once and never again. It took four hours to rig and launch, ditto for recovery. It just didn't match my definition of trailer sailing.

Once we got adjusted to that and used her for a minimum of four days we came to love her. I sold her this year after 15 years. She took us to France, Holland, the Baltic, Scotland, Scilly and all over the south and east coast - a brilliant sea boat. Yes, a pain to rig and de-rig and to keep a good towing vehicle but possible to be in Scotland in a day regardless of the weather.

So my point? She didn't fit at all my original definition of trailer sailing but she was a lot better than that in the end.

 

[aquaplane]

You stated personal attacks saying my boat is old, easy to trail and simple despite knowing my experience with the boat.
.

Your boat is old.
I never said it was easy to trail, I said it would make a good trail sailer, there is a difference.
I know you have lots of experience with the A 22, but you don't seem to have much trail sailing, as I trail sailed not as you think trail sailing is.

 

[aquaplane]

You were wrong on those, and more importantly a lot of people's idea of trailer sailing really is ' take a sizeable boat, dip it in , go for a sail, nip out, drive home ' - Really !

I know this is not the way to go even with a Mirror dinghy, but in my experience this is what novice people mean by trailer sailing, they think it's a way of avoiding moorings, quite possibly - I mean this seriously - when they think clubs are elitist and expensive, which is simply not the case if only they'd ask about it.

I have said repeatedly, if people are that keen on some sort of major relocation for a holiday, an Anderson 22 would be trailable, but I know from several experiences - with Range Rovers & other peoples' A22's - even the drive is not a relaxing experience, before all the hassle of;

finding a free slipway while the tide suits when everyone else has the same idea

a slip without a drop off the end catching the trailer

somewhere secure to leave the boat while parking the car and trailer

somewhere secure to park car and trailer

travel back to boat

rig boat

go for a sail

do the lot again in reverse


- even for several days that would be exhausting and nonsensical - and actually getting all those secure bits and free slipway would be nigh on a miracle.

We have already established that dipping it it and taking it out isn't trail sailing as folk other than you understand it, a week or two is more usual so you are talking bollocks again.

A 22' boat is a good size for trail sailing, and the extra hassle over say an 18' boat is not to be sniffed at, but the extra performance, capabilities and reward is worth it for a week or more cruise, especially with a good boat like an A22. Really!

All your prejudices about launching, parking and recovery are bollocks too. On my visits to Windermere, Martham, Loch Lomond and Largs I met non of your oft spouted problems.

It's not nonsensical for a decent length of cruise, your prejudice showing again.

You seem to like your club. Not everyone is a joiner, should they be banned from sailing? Horses for courses old boy, you enjoy the comradeship of your club, I'd rather not.

Keels again, Yawn.

I kept my trailer on my drive, where do you keep yours? Oh, you have high tressles so you can faun over your keel in the winter.

A good trailer takes lots of the hassle out of trailing and folk who dunk in salt and fresh water know to look after the trailer well for a carefree existence. Your prejudice showing again, dunking is doable with care, not as silly as you make out.

 

[Seajet]

We have already established that dipping it it and taking it out isn't trail sailing as folk other than you understand it, a week or two is more usual so you are talking bollocks again.

A 22' boat is a good size for trail sailing, and the extra hassle over say an 18' boat is not to be sniffed at, but the extra performance, capabilities and reward is worth it for a week or more cruise, especially with a good boat like an A22. Really!

All your prejudices about launching, parking and recovery are bollocks too. On my visits to Windermere, Martham, Loch Lomond and Largs I met non of your oft spouted problems.

It's not nonsensical for a decent length of cruise, your prejudice showing again.

You seem to like your club. Not everyone is a joiner, should they be banned from sailing? Horses for courses old boy, you enjoy the comradeship of your club, I'd rather not.

Keels again, Yawn.

I kept my trailer on my drive, where do you keep yours? Oh, you have high tressles so you can faun over your keel in the winter.

A good trailer takes lots of the hassle out of trailing and folk who dunk in salt and fresh water know to look after the trailer well for a carefree existence. Your prejudice showing again, dunking is doable with care, not as silly as you make out.

OK as you're out for an argument - there's no other reason for your nonsense - and this thread has run out of all the sensible talk re trailer sailing, I'll bite.

The A22's I've trailed - helping on deliveries across the country - have been on very good, brand new custom made trailers - so that's that point of yours blown away for a start.

' Folk who dunk trailers in salt or fresh water ' know they are against a ticking clock no matter what they do re ' trailer -savers ' etc - corrosion is a simple fact of life and dunking metal, brakes and bearings - maybe electrics too in your case I'd guess - in water accelerates that - my keel is galvanised and treated with the best stuff I can get, but it will not last as long as the pyramids; might well see me out but I have a spare keel standing by, not many boat owners can say that though a lot unknowingly need it !

I know it's a shocking admission but I get older every year too, presumably you and your boat are immune to this process - spiffing for you .

As well as spelling lessons, if you keep your lift keeler on a trailer at home in winter you really need to at least upgrade to clown class metallurgy to go along with your common sense certificate.. :encouragement:

 

[yachtorion]

Well, it was a nice thread while it lasted.

On the trailer thing, I had a long chat with one of the manufacturers. Their view was it isn't really an issue if you have a flush kit, rinse after use and do regular maintenance. They also suggested I could go for traditional taper bearings as there are very cheap and easy to DIY replace as and when desired.

The Lib though does have an interesting solution - the light weight hull leaves enough room in the tow weight to allow a 4 wheel trolley rolled on to the two wheel trailer. Idea being... the dead simple trolley doesn't get hurt by the dunking.

 

[fredrussell]

The Lib though does have an interesting solution ... a 4 wheel trolley rolled on to the two wheel trailer. Idea being... the dead simple trolley doesn't get hurt by the dunking.

Always liked this idea.