What qualifications do I need? Help I'm confused...

[out_to_sea]

What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I've decided I'd like to work towards skippering yachts for delivery or commercially and give me the confidence to sail my own boat around the world one day in distant future, I'm not sure yet, I just want to get the qualifications that will give me the broadest opportunity.

I know this will take some time and I will need lots of experience to acheive this, I understand that.

Currently I have RYA Level 1&2 sailing. So where now?

I'd like to gain some experience crewing for delivery companies but what route should I take qualification wise?

should I do the "Competent crew" or can i go strait into "Day skipper" course?

I don't understand the STCW 95? Can I get this without holding the Yachtmaster certificate?

And how does the commercial endorsements work? its all confusing when you don't understand the terminology...

Any help muchly appreciated.
p.s. I love learning new stuff so not bothered about exams etc.. just don't want to waste time doing the wrong thing.

 

[sailorman]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Here

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I've read the RYA site course information and found it went round in circles.

I was hoping to get some advice from people who've done it, as I'm not sure but RYA will probably recommend every course going.

I will still drop them an email and see what they say thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[stilldesperate]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

PM sent

 

[dt4134]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I guess you're talking sailing rather than power boats.

To skipper professionally in yachting you need to reach the YM Offshore level and then get commercial endorsed. The YM requires an practical exam, getting commercially endorsed is a relatively simple administrative process.

STCW95 (Standards of Training, Certification & Watchkeeping) is the overall standard for real commercial mariners (container ships, tankers etc.) YM is not STCW95, but you can do various STCW courses (such as firefighting) which will make your commercially-endorsed YM slightly more internationally recognised.

You can get the Coastal Skipper commercially endorsed, but it is pretty rare.

Whether you skip Competent Crew and go straight to Day Skipper is something you've got to think about. If you've crewed a good deal I'd say no question just skip it. On the other hand I've met (sailed with) too many qualified Day Skippers who simply don't have the nous & experience to be competent crew members.

It's all down to the idea that the Day Skipper course will teach an experienced crew how to become a basic level skipper, but is not sufficient to teach a complete novice how to be both (IMHO of course, but it's a quite firmly entrenched opinion with many experiences to back it up).

There's also the zero to hero courses if you have the money. Some people are positive about them (although the mood of this forum might be more heavily against them). Personally I'm a little negative but it's the quickest way to get a commercially-endorsed YM.

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I'm keen to spend the summer learning to handle a dinghy properly first (with as much sea time in between) So any one needing a crew member for the odd day out in the north east or west of england then let me know (I'm happy to do longer voyages from any departure point I can travel to at a reasonable cost)

I've not really looked at the packed courses, I want to be confident that I have the experience to take my family out and not put them at risk... it took me long enough to pass my driving test /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There is a day skippers course starting in September I'll look to enrole on.

I really like navigation, anyone recommend a good starting point / book?

 

[dt4134]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Dinghy sailing will teach you a lot that the RYA Cruising Courses won't.

Just be a little careful with the much larger forces as you move to bigger boats. A dinghy sailor needs, for example, to learn how to use a winch safely. Also there's a lot you can overcome with brute force and ignorance on say a thirty footer that you couldn't on a forty-five footer.

Tom Cunliffe is a good author, albeit with a style of his own. Something like The Complete Yachtmaster will give you an idea of the areas you need to learn and gives you a good idea of the philosophy of a good skipper. The RYA shorebased courses will teach you the mechanics of navigation. I think there's a good RYA book of Navigation by Tim Bartlet, but I've never actually read it.

Best of luck.

 

[paulrossall]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

If you want to sail a yacht, and assuming you are not a young kid, then I would not bother with a dinghy. It is a bit like learning to drive a go cart before you learn to drive a car.

You need to get practical experience on a yacht. Look for crewing oportunities wherever you can. JCP has covered the courses.

 

[EdWingfield]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Go here for a free navigation site. (activate the chapters by moving the cursor lower right)

http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse0.html

I think you are spot on with dinghy sailing plus yacht crewing opportunities for the first year.

North of you they do some interesting dinghy sailing. See www.tmtr.com/rally

 

[wotayottie]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

the bits of paper you will need to make a living out of sailing all require you to have a reasonable amount of time at sea beforehand, and living in west yorkshire, thats your problem. I cant offer a simple way round this issue. You need to "hustle" - trying all likely sources of sea time from the big sailing charities to any local sailor who needs crew. Join a yacht club at the nearest busy sea port. Put yourself on crewing lists. But to reassure you, there are more skippers wanting crew than the other way round so if you really put effort into it you will succeed.

As for the skills, dinghy sailing is very useful. Maybe the comparison is go cart to car, but its more difficult to drive the go cart well and conversely its easier to sail the big boat than the dinghy. It will also help your cv as far as getting rides on big boats.

If you want to learn the theory then enrol on a day skipper theory course at your local tech this coming winter. That will give you most of the theory you need.

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Thanks for the great response, I like the dinghy sailing as there is a club only 15 mins walk from me and another 10 mins drive so it gives me plenty of options for just popping out for a few hours practice, one of the clubs has a keen racing side and do weekly evening lessons and tutorials. I've been told I'll learn more in a year racing then I will in 5 years pottering around on a lake. I know thats subjective but I can see the reasoning behind it.

Living in Leeds a trip to the coast is about 90 minutes (give or take 15 mins) to either, Scarborough, Hull, Teeside, Blackpool, Liverpool so I have plenty of options, just not on my doorstep.

Thanks for the Links, I've already started to read them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy

 

[snowleopard]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

The highest you can go with the RYA is Yachtmaster. There are lots of routes to it from going through the courses and taking each exam in turn or at the other end of the scale, get the sea time and read the books then book the exam without doing and courses at all.

The ticket alone won't get you work so you need lots of experience relevant to the sector you are interested in. That will have to include a fair bit as skipper which is where you need to move on from blagging crew places to maybe owning your own boat.

To get into the world of professional yacht crew/skipper you need to go further. There are qualifications in between yachtmaster and full merchant officer, see the MCA website for details.

If you want to do instructing you will need to join the RYA instructor programme, see their website for details.

 

[Cloona]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

read Cruising under Sail and/or Voyaging Under Sail by Eric Hiscock -

 

[alant]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

For Yachtmaster Offshore, you will need 2500 miles (tidal) under your belt first.

Not a lot really!

 

[Black Sheep]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

There are two schools of thought about dinghy sailing. For what it's worth, I firmly believe that it's a very very useful way to start. Everything happens quickly, you need to rely on your senses rather than instruments - you really learn to sail. Managing a large cruiser is a different game in many ways but you'll be in a very strong position if you already have a good feel for wind, set of sails etc.

If you can possibly get some tidal (or river) experience in a dinghy that would help loads - managing to get where you want using currents as well as wind is an interesting art.

You seem to be taking a sensible approach right the way through & I'm sure you'll refine your ambitions as you progress. One quick point - the dayskipper you're starting in September is almost certainly "Dayskipper Theory" - ie navigation, boat safety etc in a classroom. To get the full Dayskipper qualification, you'll need to do a practical course as well; about a week on a big cruiser with other students. I have no opinion on whether you should do comp crew first - that probably depends on depth of pockets as well as how much cruiser sailing you can manage first.

One other possibility is to leap into cruiser ownership - buy a small (eg 18') cheap cruiser, keep her on a cheap swinging mooring attached to a sailing club and start finding out the hard way. Nothing focusses the mind quite like being master of your own vessel! But that depends on your own level of confidence and learning style.

 

[webcraft]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

[ QUOTE ]
For Yachtmaster Offshore, you will need 2500 miles (tidal) under your belt first.

Not a lot really!


[/ QUOTE ] But (at least when I did it) the average candidate presenting for the exam has three times that.

If you are really serious about a career in yachting any time in the forseeable future then a zero to hero course is probably the best idea. Pottering around on gravel pits in a dinghy isn't going to be any use whatsoever after a few hours, although it is fun.

The RYA Competent Crew course does, in itself, give you just enough hours (allegedly) to qualify for the Day Skipper course, and there are people who do one one year and the other the next year without stepping on yacht in between. Obviously this is not the route to a professional career.

Delivery companies aren't usually interested in anyone with less than YM Offshore and several thousand miles experience, as they have a big pool of qualified people to choose from.

If you can't afford the cash/time committment for zero to hero then you need to find your nearest saltwater sailing club with a reasonable number of cruising yachts and hang around. Advertise on the noticeboard of the club website that you are available for crewing for cruising or racing - but you won't learn a lot from racing as you are likely to be stuck in a narrowly defined role on board. Try to sail with as many skippers as possible.

There are also crewing forums and websites you can advertise your availability and enthusiasm on (including this one of course).

If you do this you should be able to skip RYA comp crew and go straight to Day Skipper. After that forget the practical qualifications until you are ready to do your Yachtmaster Offshore. Once you have your YM you can sign up with a few delivery companies, but be warned, jobs are usually non-paying except for the skipper and sometimes first mate, and often you have to pay your own air fares as well.

You also need to sign up for Day Skipper theory at a local night school then, with that under your belt, have a go at the Yachtmaster Offshore theory course.

Good luck!

- W

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Thank more great advice,

The navigation course is fantastic, I'm only on the second chapter but can't stop reading, I can't help being a bit geeky with stuff like this.

GPS is a revolution and I wouldn't want to be without one. But the idea of sailing for me is the self reliance, its almost romantic to be self powered, reliant on ones skills to get from A to B, plotting courses etc.

I'm sure my goals will change with experience and time, but for now owning my own boat is out of my reach, crewing privately is a way to gain some experience and meet hopefully some new friends on the way.

Crewing commercially I am hoping will be a way of gaining some experience further a field and a little bit of money?? while being able to justify to my wife I'm working but enjoying myself /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for the advice so far, my book list is rapidly expanding, I will have no shortage of presents Birthday, Christmas, Easter, Fathers day, "your a good husband day" or any other reason for my family to ever give me a present again

Cheers Andy

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

If you are taking the long term view you should also be looking at the MCA website so that can understand the transfer from Yachtmaster commercial to an MCA qualifiction. It involves some extra courses like firefighting but I also think there is management content as well.

 

[BrianH]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

[ QUOTE ]

Living in Leeds a trip to the coast is about 90 minutes (give or take 15 mins) to either, Scarborough, Hull, Teeside, Blackpool, Liverpool so I have plenty of options

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Andy, what about Whitby? When I was a member of the yacht club there it was full of folk from Leeds. Getting a crew was always a headache for me, especially for the longer races - you'll have no problem finding a berth.

But the major problem is your family - I lost many a crew because their missus got fed up at being left alone with the kids - just as golf widows get fed up with their menfolk disappearing for days. With yacht racing it's even worse.

You are on the button about dinghy racing - it's a great way to appreciate the effect of wind on a responsive craft.

Good luck in your endeavours.

 

[snooks]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Depends on how much time/money you have /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ...the quickest and most expensive way would be a zero to hero course like BOSS's FASTRAK then go on to do a 10,000 mile apprenticeship with Professional Yacht Deliveries

By the end of the year you could have the experience you want /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

or you could work your way through the RYA syllabus, at your own pace, charter a few times, get the confidence you want, then put your name down with some crewing/delivery agencies get some serious miles logged and go further to yachtmaster offshore then ocean etc