What if you don't have room for a RIB on davits?

[geem]

In the Caribbean the vast majority of yachts are over 40ft. These yachts generally have a rib and a 10 or 15hp engine. Invariably two stroke as they are relatively cheap to buy here and are lighter and more reliable than thr four strokes.
Most cruisers hoist their dinghy at night, either on davits or up thr side of the hull. Lifting thr rib reduces the fouling on thr bottom and stops it being nicked!
Small dinks can be a problem. If you hoist up the side of the hull when its blowing they are likely to take off. Strapping down can be difficult. If you leave them in the water with a two hp engine they will likely be upside down by morning. We have seen cruisers on small boats lift there dink on to the foredeck each night and take the engine off when its windy. Not very convenient.
We dont have davits as we decided wind self steering and our Duogen were more important to us. We store our 9ft rib on thr flat foredeck when cruising around the Caribbean. It sits upright on deck. On short hops between islands we leave the 15hp engine on. If we know it will be breezy we take it off and put it on the bracket.
For us the rib is essential and we wouldnt be without it. We first arrived in the Caribbean in 2004 with a tinker traveller and a 3.5hp engine. Within a month we had a rib and tohatsu 9.8hp two stroke. It changes our lifestyle and allows us to explore where we wouldnt with the old set up. We think nothing off going amile or two in the rib. We would never have done that with the 3.5hp. Also we find we used less fuel as we are planing everywhere.

 

[capnsensible]

Sailed our 33 foot boat across the Atlantic and back. Twice. Got a regular inflatable. Lifts onto front garden easily for island hopping. 4hp outboard easy to lift on and off. Never had a problem.

 

[Tranona]

In the Caribbean the vast majority of yachts are over 40ft. These yachts generally have a rib and a 10 or 15hp engine. Invariably two stroke as they are relatively cheap to buy here and are lighter and more reliable than thr four strokes.
Most cruisers hoist their dinghy at night, either on davits or up thr side of the hull. Lifting thr rib reduces the fouling on thr bottom and stops it being nicked!
Small dinks can be a problem. If you hoist up the side of the hull when its blowing they are likely to take off. Strapping down can be difficult. If you leave them in the water with a two hp engine they will likely be upside down by morning. We have seen cruisers on small boats lift there dink on to the foredeck each night and take the engine off when its windy. Not very convenient.
We dont have davits as we decided wind self steering and our Duogen were more important to us. We store our 9ft rib on thr flat foredeck when cruising around the Caribbean. It sits upright on deck. On short hops between islands we leave the 15hp engine on. If we know it will be breezy we take it off and put it on the bracket.
For us the rib is essential and we wouldnt be without it. We first arrived in the Caribbean in 2004 with a tinker traveller and a 3.5hp engine. Within a month we had a rib and tohatsu 9.8hp two stroke. It changes our lifestyle and allows us to explore where we wouldnt with the old set up. We think nothing off going amile or two in the rib. We would never have done that with the 3.5hp. Also we find we used less fuel as we are planing everywhere.

Your set up clearly suits you - but go back to the OPs original question. He has no intention of buying a bigger boat, so your options are not open to him and his crew.

The real question, which he asked, is can he still cruise out there, to which the answer is a resounding YES, just as many hundreds have done in the past and some still do. As I tried to explain in my reply, he will just have to accept the constraints inherent in using a smaller older boat and adjust his life style to suit. Others have already responded who are doing, or have done exactly the same thing.

We can all describe either what suits us or the "ideal" if we don't have it already, but this is an individual choice, hence the huge variety of both boats and cruising styles that you see in the popular areas. Some of us are lucky and can afford to have close to our ideal, but others have the desire, but not the funds, and yet others simply prefer to do it "their way".

The OP has a lovely boat, perfect for cruising in our waters, like so many of its age and type, but not ideal for living aboard in hot climates. However in its day there was little alternative and many demonstrated that it was quite possible to pursue the dream in such a boat - with a Redcrest being the equivalent of a RIB now!

 

[Ludd]

To the OP.
If you stick to the Avon, yes, you need the proper outboard bracket. I thjink you can still get them in S/S.
Also (and this is relevant to your current cruising ground too) follow a tip in PBO years ago. Fit a floor made of a slatted single bed base from IKEA( about £30) cut to fit under the uninflated tubes, curved side down. When you inflate it ,the slats are held firm, and you've damn near got a RIB. Transforms rowing, gives you better directional stability and better speed under outboard . Try it. The difference is unbelievable!

 

[Kelpie]

I've been using a soft bottomed Redcrest for years... had heard about the bed slats mod but never got round to it.
I do have an OB bracket, unfortunately not a stainless one, but on the few times I've used it I felt that it placed the weight of the engine quite high up; possibly I need to cut down the board a bit?

Thanks again for all the encouragement. Even in our home waters we are always the smallest boat in any anchorage! I hope I'm not being naive in thinking that she will be suitable for bluewater work... If we can survive several weeks at a time cooped up below decks avoiding the Scottish weather, then cruising somewhere sunny must be easier, no? Plus she has pretty decent water tankage (450l). The saloon mounted engine could be an issue though. The warmth it gives to the cabin is very welcome up here, but maybe not so handy in the tropics

 

[Ludd]

I've been using a soft bottomed Redcrest for years... had heard about the bed slats mod but never got round to it.
I do have an OB bracket, unfortunately not a stainless one, but on the few times I've used it I felt that it placed the weight of the engine quite high up; possibly I need to cut down the board a bit?

Thanks again for all the encouragement. Even in our home waters we are always the smallest boat in any anchorage! I hope I'm not being naive in thinking that she will be suitable for bluewater work... If we can survive several weeks at a time cooped up below decks avoiding the Scottish weather, then cruising somewhere sunny must be easier, no? Plus she has pretty decent water tankage (450l). The saloon mounted engine could be an issue though. The warmth it gives to the cabin is very welcome up here, but maybe not so handy in the tropics

You'll be sailing, not motoring! The slats are worthwhile , believe me. I still have my Avon (the later big tube grey one) as a spare, but foolishly gave away the slatted floor. My Avon had the fibreglass bracket mounted on rubber mushrooms. Allright with a 2hp lightweight , but a Yam Malta, was too much weight and power for the mushrooms.

 

[Tranona]

I've been using a soft bottomed Redcrest for years... had heard about the bed slats mod but never got round to it.
I do have an OB bracket, unfortunately not a stainless one, but on the few times I've used it I felt that it placed the weight of the engine quite high up; possibly I need to cut down the board a bit?

Please don't do anything with the outboard bracket. It is already lower than a standard shaft outboard, being designed specifically for a Seagull 40 Minus or Featherweight which has a 13" shaft height.

As with everything it is a compromise. When the Redcrest was first designed there was little expectation that outboards would be used, mainly because there were few suitable ones around and they cost more than the dinghy. The round tail does not have enough aft buoyancy really compared with later hard transom boats. The bracket was designed in conjunction with Seagull (who I used to work for) and the ultra short shaft engine with the little prop designed to go with it. This is still the best set up, although the Japanese 2 stroke 2hp (Yamaha, Suzuki or Mariner) are also good.

There is an art to rowing a Redcrest using short quick strokes. The slats help by stiffening the bottom. However any distance with 3 people plus gear is going to be hard work.

 

[geem]

Your set up clearly suits you - but go back to the OPs original question. He has no intention of buying a bigger boat, so your options are not open to him and his crew.

The real question, which he asked, is can he still cruise out there, to which the answer is a resounding YES, just as many hundreds have done in the past and some still do. As I tried to explain in my reply, he will just have to accept the constraints inherent in using a smaller older boat and adjust his life style to suit. Others have already responded who are doing, or have done exactly the same thing.

We can all describe either what suits us or the "ideal" if we don't have it already, but this is an individual choice, hence the huge variety of both boats and cruising styles that you see in the popular areas. Some of us are lucky and can afford to have close to our ideal, but others have the desire, but not the funds, and yet others simply prefer to do it "their way".

The OP has a lovely boat, perfect for cruising in our waters, like so many of its age and type, but not ideal for living aboard in hot climates. However in its day there was little alternative and many demonstrated that it was quite possible to pursue the dream in such a boat - with a Redcrest being the equivalent of a RIB now!

There is no doubt that the OP could do it in the boat he has now. The thing to be aware of is that most liveaboards live on the anchor in the Caribbean. Marinas are expensive. Cost of living here is expensive. Anchoring is free. We balance one against the other. Making long passages ashore in a small wet dinghy soon becomes tiresome. I know, I have done it. Its not long before you want better. Ribs are popular here for good reason. A compromise is a good roll up dinghy that will take a 10hp two stroke. That gets two ashore and back at reasonable speed and comfort. Durability is an issue unless it has a hard bottom but thats the price you pay.

 

[Kelpie]

The way we currently cruise is probably about 80% anchoring, if not more, and the boat lives on a swing mooring. So dinghying is something we are quite accustomed to, and the Redcrest + oars is perfectly good. But it's no problem when you can anchor a hundred yards off the shore. I did buy an ob but it's not seen much use, generally quicker just to grab the oars.

Anyway thanks for the insights. It's all several years in the future so who knows what we will actually end up doing- we may do the French canals and a bit of the Med first, or we we might go down the Rias and then on to the Atlantic islands. If the lifestyle and budget works out, then we are young enough that we could take our time.

 

[Pavalijo]

Our solution to this conundrum (stowing the dinghy without davits) is that we will strap the inflated dinghy vertically across the transom when on short passages in settled weather, but otherwise will deflate and carry it rolled and strapped down on the foredeck.
To make this easier we have purchased a 12v inflator (Bravo BTP) which will inflate quickly and to the correct pressure. We use the spinnaker halyard to hoist on and off. We will also have a hoisting block mounted on the new solar panel arch to make moving the outboard less back-breaking.
We also lift the dinghy and outboard to deck level on the halyard overnight (partly due to tales of dinghies flipping and dunking the outboard in squalls).
From our chartering in the Caribbean we can confirm that easy use of the dinghy is vital as you will use it almost every day. We have had one which was supplied with a long plastic covered wire strop (hoops either end) and a padlock which was very reassuring on a few occasions!

 

[geem]

The way we currently cruise is probably about 80% anchoring, if not more, and the boat lives on a swing mooring. So dinghying is something we are quite accustomed to, and the Redcrest + oars is perfectly good. But it's no problem when you can anchor a hundred yards off the shore. I did buy an ob but it's not seen much use, generally quicker just to grab the oars.

Anyway thanks for the insights. It's all several years in the future so who knows what we will actually end up doing- we may do the French canals and a bit of the Med first, or we we might go down the Rias and then on to the Atlantic islands. If the lifestyle and budget works out, then we are young enough that we could take our time.

What most people do is use what ever dinghy they have now until it no longer suits their needs. The best place to buy ribs is in the caribbean. There are now four makes on sale here in Budget Marine and Island Waterworld. These are AB, Caribe, Aruba and Highfield. Plenty of choice. AB and Highfield specialize in Aluminium. AB makes some tiny lightweight ribs that may suit smaller yachts.
We are currently on the park moorings in Aruba. It is 2 miles to the town dock. I have just checked it on Navionics. We wouldnt be making the trip by small dinghy! There is no shelter here. You are basically anchored in the Caribbean sea. We have our mizzen up to reduce the rolling. If you want to visit the less well trodden Caribbean islands you need the kit to do it safely and in reasonable comfort. There is no harbour suitable for yachts and no marina. Stacia and Monserat are the same but less reliant on a good rib as distances are less. Hope this helps

 

[TRUNDLETRUC]

I have wondered for some time about where to put the dinghy and came to the conclusion that the back of the boat is the best place. On the foredeck you get extra windage, gets in the way of the hatches, and restricts movement about the boat. My boat does not have room for davits and the back is not wide enough to cover a dinghy fastened sideways across the back. I have been working on a cheap system of ramming the stern of the dinghy into the sugar-scoop and lifting the front of the dinghy to 45degrees so it is completely out of the water. BUT! in the March issue of Yachting Monthly someone has beaten me to it. Rotating davits sold by SweBoat, Sweden. www.dinghyrings.se
Quick to lift the dinghy up and put down. Dinghy hidden behind the boat when going to windward. I don't know how it would behave in a big following sea (might stop you getting pooped!) but presumably if you were sailing miles from land you would deflate the dinghy anyway. The remaining davits would not get in the way like normal ones. Good Idea?

 

[Kelpie]

I have wondered for some time about where to put the dinghy and came to the conclusion that the back of the boat is the best place. On the foredeck you get extra windage, gets in the way of the hatches, and restricts movement about the boat. My boat does not have room for davits and the back is not wide enough to cover a dinghy fastened sideways across the back. I have been working on a cheap system of ramming the stern of the dinghy into the sugar-scoop and lifting the front of the dinghy to 45degrees so it is completely out of the water. BUT! in the March issue of Yachting Monthly someone has beaten me to it. Rotating davits sold by SweBoat, Sweden. www.dinghyrings.se
Quick to lift the dinghy up and put down. Dinghy hidden behind the boat when going to windward. I don't know how it would behave in a big following sea (might stop you getting pooped!) but presumably if you were sailing miles from land you would deflate the dinghy anyway. The remaining davits would not get in the way like normal ones. Good Idea?

I'd have thought it might stick up quite high, no? Other than that, could work for ghe right boat.
Not much use for me though- transom stern plus a windvane.
I'm fairly adept at hauling the Redcrest aboard using a halyard, can be done singlehanded, and I have a plug in pump for it. So no worries there.

The only real question is how far I'm going to have to go by dinghy- not an easy one to answer, judging by the comments on this thread, as obviously it is very variable.

 

[Goldie]

Avon used to do a lightweight RIB that packed down quite well but the solid hull was still 2.8M (from memory) and needed inventive stowage.

I think the Avon ones were the Riblite 260 and Riblite 310 - they may even still be made but under the Zodiac name now I think. The transoms fold flat so they pack down like a big windsurfer with the stowed length only being the length of the GRP floor. We have the 260 and it stows neatly on the coachroof forward of the mast (under the boom on our last boat, a 36 footer). From getting it (deflated) out of its cover to in the water is <10 mins. Its only slight disadvantage is that in the interests of keeping it compact, it doesn't have a particularly deep V forward but as a tender, it's great.

 

[tcm]

At some point in the next few years we (two plus young kid) hope to take a break from work and spend several years living aboard our old fashioned 33ft boat. An Atlantic circuit would be a real ambition but we're not too hung up on particular destinations.

Most of my 'research' into liveaboard cruising reveals two types of information:
- highly detailed blogs and postings from people living on 40ft+ boats equipped with gennies, watermakers, RIBs, etc etc. These are obviously the most prevalent group and if we had the time/money to join that group then we would!
- secondly, when you look specifically at living on smaller/simpler boats, it seems there are plenty of people doing this, or people who started out this way- but these accounts tend to carry a lot less detail.

What I'm wondering is just how people on smaller boats make it work. The big boat people tell you that you *must* have a RIB on davits- well I have an Avon and a pair of oars! Will this make life hell cruising in the Carribean? Any other aspects of choosing a smaller boat that are likely to be a big compromise?

We are happy enough with the actual space, and she has good tankage, etc- we could cruise home waters indefinitely with the current setup ( well, assuming a summer that lasted all year round!)- but I'm wondering if it's a bit naive toa ssume that she will also be suitable for adventures further afield.

There’s no boat suitable for everywhere. Get the boat so it’s suitable to hang out in the uk. Needs almost no planning at all. If you get to France, there’s loads of shops! And likewise in Spain, probably more selection of sun-shade things. You can float across the Atlantic easy enough - people doing it on rowing boats. A rowing boat as tender isn’t a bunch of fun in the carib, cos imagine you were in Newtown Creek and there were shops and fun bars ashore, and you had to do the shopping for a week? But it is doable. I have seen thin cruising people doing this, usually with no wife or partner, but not always. So anyway, the boat will be fine, just get it so it’s okay for 1 week! Then live on it for a week and just see. For the atlantic it has to be ok for 4 weeks. The fun way to shop is to go to a large supermarket in Las Palmas, find an unattended trolley full of stuff, and take it to the checkout. You need a trolley load of food per person for an atlantic crossing. Go on then?...

 

[tcm]

Um, some people asking about where to put the dinghy on long passage. Choice is foredeck or hanging over the stern. Foredeck feels a better idea, but it either needs to be hard (non-inlflatable) dinghy or have proper chocks made for it - otherwise a half-inflated dink will chafe on the deck for weeks, and be busted forever. Hanging the dink on the stern was fine, but again it needs extra ropery to take weight off the small fittings, and to stop it wobbling about - it has gotta be fixed as firm as possible. And it has gotta drain. VERY unlikely to get water in the dink in following sea, and if you do, the dink won’t be the main problem. I had up to 7m following seas (but not “angry”) on rtw and it was fine.

 

[James Marinero]

Great thread! We're in the Carib using a 2.8m FOB inflatable (with i/f floor), solid transom, 2.5 Mariner. Works well for us. Rolls away for passages (focsle), on foredeck rest of the time. A rib would be nice, but stow it where (have windvane etc, hate davits)? Did Brazil and back from Europe with a solid tender on the foredeck. Nice to have, heavy to handle. Sold it.

OP - just get going with your roundtail and find the best answers as you go along - you have been superbly informed on this thread. But I do like the quickbote - thanks for the pointer...There's a squall now and I'm just off in the inflatable for grilled lobster at SharkAttack in Chatham Bay. The $ for a RIB buys a lot of lobster!

 

[tcm]

At some point in the next few years we (two plus young kid) hope to take a break from work and spend several years living aboard our old fashioned 33ft boat. An Atlantic circuit would be a real ambition but we're not too hung up on particular destinations.

Most of my 'research' into liveaboard cruising reveals two types of information:
- highly detailed blogs and postings from people living on 40ft+ boats equipped with gennies, watermakers, RIBs, etc etc. These are obviously the most prevalent group and if we had the time/money to join that group then we would!
- secondly, when you look specifically at living on smaller/simpler boats, it seems there are plenty of people doing this, or people who started out this way- but these accounts tend to carry a lot less detail.

What I'm wondering is just how people on smaller boats make it work. The big boat people tell you that you *must* have a RIB on davits- well I have an Avon and a pair of oars! Will this make life hell cruising in the Carribean? Any other aspects of choosing a smaller boat that are likely to be a big compromise?

We are happy enough with the actual space, and she has good tankage, etc- we could cruise home waters indefinitely with the current setup ( well, assuming a summer that lasted all year round!)- but I'm wondering if it's a bit naive toa ssume that she will also be suitable for adventures further afield.

Oh just go!

That is exactly what Brian and his wife did from Swansea - got the idea in the pub, went to Lidl, slept on boat and set off to the next marina along. They watched forecasts, hopped all the way the down the coast and on to Canaries, then across the pons and round the world in a 33foot boat.

If you can sail UK waters then THAT is the most treacherous sea you will find in an Atlantic circuit, and I’ve done six. Half of them back into the med, mind, stuff that Western Approaches malarky...

Oh and all the boats shops are CHEAPER outside the UK...

Yeah, your life will be loads better with planing dink once in the carib. One answer to the dinghy issue is to buy a nice 10 or better 12ft rib and 15 hp in the caribbean and tow it around ... and then sell it in St martin just before you leave.

Timings ... the IDEAL would be to go south in June or July, aiming to be south of Biscay in August and in the Canaries end August... and then cruise Canaries till sometime after the ARC goes on the next-to-last Sunday of November. The arc has critics but it’s fine. You would need to book the arc by New year if you want to go with them, and it’s fun enough, meet some nice people. Same rally thing going on in Lanzarote, Odyssey cruise thing. The ARC is good cos you can’t use Las Palmas marina unless you DO join the ARC ... and even though it is oh less than a grand to join, you get to stay LP which is perhaps the cheapest marina in europe and you save it all back in a month against being in another marina all more expensive. LP has ok security, water and power all so cheap some people stay for years. I paid 19euros a night in a 57 footer and ran the aircon a fair bit. Anyway, across the atlantic, buy a rib somewhere, tow that around as required, no big deal, sell it in late May or June when you head north, Bermuda if you must but 800nm only gets you less than half that distance towards the Azores 2400nm from st martin, then Gib or Falmouth are both about 1200nm.

 

[michael_w]

I did my 2 Atlantic circuts with a air deck tender. Nice and light so it can be carried up the beach rather than filling up with water and sand from the breakers. Would pack up and stow below for ocean passages, or go in a cockpit locker. OK with its puny 3hp outboard it used to take a few minutes longer to get ashore, but far less nickable than a rib with a highly desirable 15hp on the back.

 

[tcm]

Oh and with the dink, you can still lift it out overnight (more secure, and less growth on rib hull) with balanced four-point support points from inside the rib to central lifting eye and use the spinny halyard to hook it clear and leaning on hull midships. See how it goes? You can stay open for a bargain any time, and lots of people in lots of marinas and anchorages to meet, and all that jolly stuff.

Oh and sorry, but of course it’s gonna be quite awful. 33ft boat, sheesh I went just once in a mono 57 ft... and even that was godawful lurching all over the place. Much nice in a catamaran. Sailing performance well so what? Lots is downwind. You are looking at max 12 weeks sailing. Rest of the time at anchor.

Long-term living in a mono is like living on a motorbike cos it’s more fun in corners and looks sexier than a camper van. But unfortunately the motorbike is shyte in all other respects viz. living on/in it long term compared with larger vehicles for comfort and practicality.

On a longer trip like Atlantic Circuit or rtw, I would expect catamarans likely better in terms of crew fatigue - so It was fine ripping round in a year in a catamaran whereas i would have needed more recovery time if being in a mono for weeks at a time.

But whatever, it’ll be fine enough. The boat will likely be fine - it’s just a question of your own comfort, not safety.