What if you don't have room for a RIB on davits?

[Kelpie]

At some point in the next few years we (two plus young kid) hope to take a break from work and spend several years living aboard our old fashioned 33ft boat. An Atlantic circuit would be a real ambition but we're not too hung up on particular destinations.

Most of my 'research' into liveaboard cruising reveals two types of information:
- highly detailed blogs and postings from people living on 40ft+ boats equipped with gennies, watermakers, RIBs, etc etc. These are obviously the most prevalent group and if we had the time/money to join that group then we would!
- secondly, when you look specifically at living on smaller/simpler boats, it seems there are plenty of people doing this, or people who started out this way- but these accounts tend to carry a lot less detail.

What I'm wondering is just how people on smaller boats make it work. The big boat people tell you that you *must* have a RIB on davits- well I have an Avon and a pair of oars! Will this make life hell cruising in the Carribean? Any other aspects of choosing a smaller boat that are likely to be a big compromise?

We are happy enough with the actual space, and she has good tankage, etc- we could cruise home waters indefinitely with the current setup ( well, assuming a summer that lasted all year round!)- but I'm wondering if it's a bit naive toa ssume that she will also be suitable for adventures further afield.

 

[Yngmar]

Some can fit a dinghy on the foredeck, or under the boom. If not a whole one, maybe a nesting dinghy will. Personally I went for a folding one, a Portabote 10 (comes in other makes and sizes, e.g. Bananaboat, Quickboat). This is folded to the size and thickness of a surfboard and strapped to the inside of the rail on the foredeck. The seats go in a locker. Other choices are an inflatable, slatted floor or F-RIB. Many options, have a good look at where you can store things on your boat and what you want from a dinghy and then find the one that suits your needs and budget.

Oars are fine in most places - I've been following DrakeParagon, who has a biggish boat, but no davits nor outboard. The dinghy stows on the foredeck (over a pile of other things) and the oars have been sufficient almost everywhere except when moored up a river he had to apply some furious rowing once

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks for that. The range of different dinghy options seems worth checking out.
I've read about anchorages where you end up having to drop the hook miles from shore, and a planing RIB being the only viable tender... But maybe that only applies if you're in a 50ft Oyster with 8ft of keel underneath you...?

 

[Tranona]

Yes, far more anchoring out there and your dinghy is your taxi as not only do you need it to get you and your crew ashore, but also all your stores. Hence the popularity of RIBs - if you main boat is big enough!. However, if you go back to the time (40 years ago!) when your size boat was the norm then everybody had a Redcrest as the ultimate tender (probably with a Seagull 40+ on the back). But of course there were no wall to wall charter cats in the popular anchorages and life was more leisurely and just having a stable storable dinghy was luxury.

Of course times have changed and now the norm is 40'+ either cat or mono which can carry a decent size RIB, so if you want that style you have to bite the bullet and follow the trend with a bigger boat. But if you are determined to do it in a smaller older boat (and why not, you will not be alone) you have to work with what you have and accept the limitations.

You will probably discover that aspect will be the least of you problems. 4 of you living on your boat for several years in a hot climate (or even 2 if you don't take the children) will be a serious challenge. Good pioneering spirit and all that but a boat like yours was never designed for that sort of use, and was only popular in the past because that was what was available. As soon as people got richer they rushed to buy or build bigger boats with more space, ventilation, outdoor living space etc to avoid the inevitable camping comparison.

Before you commit suggest you take a couple of weeks' charter in the middle of summer in the Med. You will discover even there that few people use older boats, nor many under 32'. It starts to get bearable for living at around 35' modern style and 38-40' is comfortable for 4. Bear in mind though that going west requires a lot more capacity - stores, fuel, water etc and you will see why 40' becomes the norm.

 

[Ludd]

Plenty doing it on smaller boats than yours. Get a decent LIGHT inflatable with an inflatable floor/ keel and make covers for the tubes AND floor (uv protection) Hard transom lets you fit wheels for coral beaches.
I have a Honwave 2.6m . Too heavy by far.
Your smaller boat (less draught) allows you to anchor closer to shore, so no need for a RIB.
Go nfor it.
Don't listen to the doom and gloom merchant(s) who think if it's under 40ft and not a Bavaria it can't go anywhere!
Oh, and keep your Avon as a spare--- great cool pool for the kid!

 

[TQA]

There are lots of cruisers managing just fine without a RIB and at least 15 hp which is the preferred options.

A smaller soft bottom dinghy with a 2 hp ob is perfectly serviceable and safe but it will be wetter with it's smaller tubes. Expect wet bottoms and wet feet. A used Avon will outlast a cheap new polyester dink. Hypalon is the way to go.

A plywood nesting dink works too but don't go small. Try for 10 ft at least and incorporate flotation.

Porteaboats are seen occasionally but not many cruisers persevere with one.

Don't be tempted to buy a Honda 2.3 four stroke without taking a test drive, they are NOISY.

The most common small OB is the Tohatsu 3.3 2 st also sold under a variety of other names.

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks for the (mostly) encouraging replies.
There are only three of us, by the way. Four would definitely be a squeeze.
If we decided that we had to change boat, that would probably delay everything by several years whilst we saved up. So my thinking is, go sooner, and if we decide we like the lifestyle, then that might be the time to consider upgrading. If we end up not living aboard full time, and just doing summer cruises around the Western Isles then we would much rather be in our current boat than some big lumbering bluewater beast.

I already have two roundtail Avons and a Tohatsu 3.5 2Str somewhere- hardly use it because I'm not that impressed with the roundtail+ob combo really. The dinghies are probably older than I am...

 

[Carmel2]

Anyone use these?? http://www.snapdavit.co.uk/inflatables/ it might work for the OP.

 

[RupertW]

Although you say it's an old fashiond 33 foot a lot will depend on how you get on and off the boat. Stern to, swimming and getting in and out of the dinghy make davits awkward in a monohull (like suspending your car across the front door of your house), I think.

But if your stern is such that it's not easy to get off that way, then davits, especially for a small dinghy becomes more convenient as you can keep the engine on and lift and drop as you choose - then decide on nice side steps to get into dinghy and maybe bow passarelle/plank.

I would still go for a small rib if possible as beaches may be stony or with obstacles and it's nice not to have a floor that tears as you ground or haul it up the beach - but if light enough you can lift more easily. I saw some neat folding ribs at the boat show - but slightly bigger than we wanted as we aim to move down from our over heavy 3m rib (which sits on the foredeck).

 

[bobthecook]

Anyone use these?? http://www.snapdavit.co.uk/inflatables/ it might work for the OP.

More expencive than the boat

 

[duncan99210]

Just back from Barbados. We were moored in the Careenage, Bridgetown which is where most folks brought their dinghies into from the Carlisle Bay anchorage. Less than a third of the dinghies were RIBs, the rest a variety of inflatables. The RIBs all had engines of 10hp and up. The majority of the inflatables had small 2 stroke engines (2.5 - 3.5 hp) but none were round tails: all had a solid transom.
Based on that not very representative sample, when we get round to doing the crossing, we will be sticking with our current inflatable and 2.5hp 2 stroke outboard.
As to the size of boat, the OPs boat seems fine to me, albeit smaller than ours. In the OPs circumstances, I wouldn't hesitate to seize the day and do it rather than finding excuses to delay.

 

[Kelpie]

We don't have a sugar scoop or bathing platform, but our transom is really too narrow for davits plus we have a windvane.

Thanks to Duncan for the straw poll of what people are actually using- a big confidence boost!

The dream is still a few years in the future, but we are loathe to postpone it any further than absolutely necessary.
Also, by my way of thinking, boats are only getting cheaper every year. So we will push the limits of ourselves and our current boat and, if we really think this is our future, look for a bigger boat a few years down the line. But no point owning it whilst we don't need it.

 

[john_q]

We also started with an Avon roundtail and a seagull, it worked fine, could be rowed well with 7 foot oars BUT VERY WET in a chop.

We have a 40 foot steel ketch (so smaller fore deck than a sloop) with a canoe stern with a Hydrovane and Duogen fitted so no room for davits at the back. We have an AB 8AL aluminium bottomed RIB weighting about 74 lbs with a 4 hp on it.

At sea, the outboard is stowed on the stern on a bracket and the dinghy (inverted) and hoisted aboard and stowed on the fore deck.

In the NW Caribbean, our observation is that that more and more people, after they have been hear for more than a season, now are using smaller outboards as they are lighter to handle and less appealing to the tea leaves.

My personal view is that davits are dangerous on small mono hulls under 60 foot for use at sea as you cannot get them high enough out of the water for safety and the extra weight is in the wrong place. However Island hopping and overnight stowage at anchor they can be useful

We also carry a roll up dinghy stowed on deck as a spare and a 2HP 2 stroke outboard which get used a couple of time a year by us and other folks.

 

[GHA]

So my thinking is, go sooner, and if we decide we like the lifestyle, then that might be the time to consider upgrading.

Huge +1!

I'm usually on the hook on a 33'er with a tinker tramp and Honda 2hp. No davits.
With the pole and a little rigging it's easy to winch onto the foredeck with a halyard winch outboard and all. A little outboard is dead handy when there's a load of tide up a river or whatever but plenty survive just with oars.
But get out there, it's great

 

[TQA]

If you stick to the round tail Avon make sure you have the outboard mount. I believe they are hard to find.

 

[Carmel2]

More expencive than the boat

£100.79p. I think the rope cost more for my davits.

 

[apw3]

Recently back from 3 years in Med on 12m cat. Didn't spend one night in a marina March to November. Anchored every day. We had a 2.80 rib on the transom with a 5hp Yam and a little Yam inflatable on the trampoline up front.
1. If we used the rib, we rowed. Never used the o/b. But unloading it was a kerfaffle so....
2. Most often I picked up the inflatable (In my mid 60s), chucked it in and out with the oars.
3. Having 2 means of getting to shore meant everyone's needs were (usually) met.
Go with the most simple system as long as it's safe is my humble advice.

 

[stiknstring]

Based on our experience in the Caribbean, you do need a reasonably powerful outboard (recommend a lightweight - maybe 2 stroke of around 5hp). 2HP (which we also used) was not strong enough to get four of us (two small children and us) the relatively long distances to/from moorings. Winds can blow quite strong in these anchorages with often quite choppy conditions and rowing is not really viable. Echo what people have said about a dry dinghy (we have a dinghy with inflatable floor that lifts the boat out the water a little) and a dry bag (see Avon) attached at the front. Davits have been the bane of my life over the years, but one thing you should always do in the Caribbean is lift the boat and engine out of the water every night, otherwise you stand a good chance of having it nicked. We used the spi halyard and some webbing round the dinghy to lift her well clear of the water and up to deck height. Davits make it easier (just that our boat was not designed to have davits so it was a pain).

You will often want to take the dinghy to a beach and pull it up. The sand is more often than not nice and soft so will not damage the underside too much but if concerned, then a solid RIB solves that problem but then they are a lot more difficult to stow (awkward and heavier). Avon used to do a lightweight RIB that packed down quite well but the solid hull was still 2.8M (from memory) and needed inventive stowage.

Alan

 

[jdc]

Many of the live-aboards in the Caribbean use a hard dinghy: few if any from continental Europe but some, including us, from the UK and loads more from the US and Canada. Any stats are distorted by the huge number of charter boats which never have a hard dinghy. Those with hard dinghies often row or have small (2.5 or 3.3HP) OBs.

We have no davits and lift the dinghy out onto the foredeck with the spinaker halyard. Our boat is easily large and solid enough for davits, but I dislike them.

In addition to the hard dinghy we have an Avon round-tail, which rows well. No RIB.

 

[doug748]

Seems like you have a very flexible boat, perfect for all sorts of trips. As they say, go simple, go now. What would you do with a 40foot lump on your own mooring? - exactly, you would sail less.

Even in very sheltered anchorages there is very often a 50m zone where nobody tends to park, they are either worried about touching the bottom or they stay 400 yards out because they draw 7 foot and they have the rib.... which they will forever be worried about being stolen. You find this in areas of no tide as well. You have the boat to anchor close in and won't be so interested in restlessly going to and fro in a Rib which sometimes look like a lifestyle thing rather than a need to get somewhere for a constructive reason.
Every time you go ashore you spend money, on breakfast on beer on hand carved models of the Marie Celeste - cut down and save cash.

I agree with the others, think about a rigid for the foredeck but my choice would be the 2.7ish inflatable with air floor and keel and large tubes. Dig the 2st outboard out, it is perfect for the job. Long oars would make shorter trips viable for the nipper or one person. Hoist it onto the foredeck as suggested.

One totally unsolicited suggestion :nonchalance:
In your place I would consider the Canal du Midi. A great trip through Brittany and the Charente to start you off, a sojourn through great wine country and then the Med, and the world's your lobster. Just saying like.