What do you want out of a blue water boat?

[E39mad]

In addition to many of the above:

Directionally stable meaning little or no power using Autohelm or is easy for self steering gear.

Encapsulated long fin for peace of mind.

A cockpit you can lie down in comfortably.

Plenty of deck hatches.

 

[jonic]

In addition to many of the above:

Directionally stable meaning little or no power using Autohelm or is easy for self steering gear.

Encapsulated long fin for peace of mind.

A cockpit you can lie down in comfortably.

Plenty of deck hatches.

+1

 

[shaunksb]

.

An eberspacher outlet in the wet locker

A generator

A Sat Phone

Watertight bulkheads x2

A good sound system.

A freezer

A cuddly toy

Lots of water tankage so I won't need wet wipes ever again.

A computer at the nav station

AIS

Proper night light setting so you can still move about

Pipecots

Displacement

A secure galley

__________________________________

 

[Gryphon2]

My Beneteau 423....see ybw boats4sale

 

[E39mad]

My Beneteau 423....see ybw boats4sale

Ha ha....you clearly haven't read any of the above posts

 

[Koeketiene]

All attached to a strong stiff boat with a secure cockpit, wide side decks, encapsulated or well bonded keel, skeg or semi skeg rudder, secure galley with easy access to companion way, good stowage and an easy motion at sea.

Tranona (and the other ayatolahs of the AWB) will be along shortly to point out how wrong and outdated you are.
You've got to move with the times.

 

[Heckler]

My requirements are;

A strong boat that can handle rough weather without too much intervention from me. If I am sick or injured I may need to be strapped to the bunk. Can the boat handle a battering from waves.

Are there excellent sea bunks for rough passages. At least two

Is the bilge deep so water stays under the floor when healed

Is there shelter in the cockpit from rain and wind

In light winds will the boat sail well so I don’t need to resort to the engine.

Has the boat got good tankage. Something like enough water for a month for two people.

Can the boat sail well to windward

The boat doesn’t need to be fast but she shouldn’t be slow either

At anchor the boat should be a pleasure to live on. A well designed cockpit that allows you to live outside and entertain without having ropes everywhere and the wheel in the way.

Place to carry a decent rib and deck lockers to stow diving gear, fenders, inflatable paddleboard, canoe etc, I don’t like fender hanging over the stern and I don’t want a deck that looks like a storage yard.

Can I add 4 ton of gear to the basic boat and she isn’t down on her design marks.

What do you want?

A Trintella 44?
S

 

[ip485]

Long keel (I would say that), that will look after you when you have had enough, sea kindly, doesnt creak all night long, and a boat that comes into its own off the wind.

Comfortable in side, warm cosy, roomy as many mod. cons. as possible - washing machine, TV, good sound system.

Big lazarette for all the toys, tools, bikes, scuba compressor etc.

Dinghy on davits with at least 10 HP outboard and mechanical means of removing the engine from the dinghy without having to lug it on board - eg a lift crane.

Power to spare - which means a Genset and solar panels.

Proper shower over the rear deck.

Serious anchor with powerful windlass.

- my reality, is not too much time sailing, but when the wind calls, comfortable passages and good to cross oceans, but when tucked up on the anchor or in harbour a home that is going to be comfortable and a happy space in which to live and enjoy all that blue water.

I think I have found it -

 

[Tranona]

Tranona (and the other ayatolahs of the AWB) will be along shortly to point out how wrong and outdated you are.
You've got to move with the times.

Don't have to. The majority of "bluewater" boats, if you define that as boats that go bluewater, do not now have those design characteristics, and the number will increase every year, and seem to manage quite well.

All down to choice, so just because some people choose such things, it does not mean they are essential for everybody. Nothing to do with being right or wrong, nor with being outdated, just a matter of choice.

 

[rotrax]

Long keel (I would say that), that will look after you when you have had enough, sea kindly, doesnt creak all night long, and a boat that comes into its own off the wind.

Comfortable in side, warm cosy, roomy as many mod. cons. as possible - washing machine, TV, good sound system.

Big lazarette for all the toys, tools, bikes, scuba compressor etc.

Dinghy on davits with at least 10 HP outboard and mechanical means of removing the engine from the dinghy without having to lug it on board - eg a lift crane.

Power to spare - which means a Genset and solar panels.

Proper shower over the rear deck.

Serious anchor with powerful windlass.

- my reality, is not too much time sailing, but when the wind calls, comfortable passages and good to cross oceans, but when tucked up on the anchor or in harbour a home that is going to be comfortable and a happy space in which to live and enjoy all that blue water.

I think I have found it -

Agree-but I would wouldnt I!

Just back in Gosport after two seasons away, visiting France, Channel Islands, Ireland-N&S-Scotland and the IOM. Sailed-or motorsailed-about 3000 NM. Longest passage 200 NM, Arklow to Newlyn.

I will post a little about our trip in a New Post soon, but can confirm that our 16 year old Island Packet 350 was just about right. Safe and steady in heavy weather, brilliant on the hook or alongside, good fuel and water tankage and well sorted layout for a retired couple with physical limitations.

If we keep her, a matter of discussion with First Mate at the moment-another IP is attractive-good heating will be a requirement.

To plagarise Mark Twain " The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in the Clyde! "

We have lived on Jess for two four month periods and find her a really good compromise.

She is not perfect-but then what sailing boat is.......................

Head now below parapet!

 

[GHA]

What do you want out of a blue water boat?--------

One where the water stays on the outside, heavy enough so it isn't a washing machine when the wind gets up even if it is a bit slower and with one stuff which doesn't break much. And if stuff does break then easy enough to make it sailable with bits available from some obscure south American small town.

 

[ip485]

Agree-but I would wouldnt I!

Well, clearly the only answer is an Island Packet ;--)

PS PM sent

 

[Koeketiene]

Don't have to. The majority of "bluewater" boats, if you define that as boats that go bluewater, do not now have those design characteristics, and the number will increase every year, and seem to manage quite well.

All down to choice, so just because some people choose such things, it does not mean they are essential for everybody. Nothing to do with being right or wrong, nor with being outdated, just a matter of choice.

Boats built now don't have these characteristics because they come at an extra cost, and for no other reason.
If you want a new boat and you are being offered nothing else but spade rudders and bolt-on keels, what are you going to buy?

Skeg hung rudders and encapsulated keels are no longer offered for reason of economy not because spade rudders and bolt on keels are better.
It's interesting - but not surprising - to see that no-one on here requested spade rudders and bolt on keels for their blue water boat.

 

[Tim Good]

I bought on the basis of:

- 40ft +
- Pilot house or deck saloon.
- Heavy weight
- Long or semi keel for directional stability
- Cutter or Ketch for good balance and sail options
- solar power, watermaker and 240v by inverter or genset
- workshop space

I've managed to squeeze that lot into a 43ft which will be a liveaboard from next year.

 

[Tranona]

Boats built now don't have these characteristics because they come at an extra cost, and for no other reason.
If you want a new boat and you are being offered nothing else but spade rudders and bolt-on keels, what are you going to buy?

Skeg hung rudders and encapsulated keels are no longer offered for reason of economy not because spade rudders and bolt on keels are better.
It's interesting - but not surprising - to see that no-one on here requested spade rudders and bolt on keels for their blue water boat.

40 years ago the preferred "blue water" boat would have been one based on working craft - pilot cutters, fishing boats, lifeboats etc. So if this thread was run then it is the characteristics of that type of boat that would dominate peoples' wish lists. Then along came these new fangled GRP boats with separate keels and rudders and the "real" bluewater folks would not touch them with a bargepole. Of course the main reason why the old style boats were used was not because they were the best, but simply because they were what was available that was most suitable for the job.

Fast forward 40 years to now, and the once despised "modern" boats are now revered by bluewater sailors, having shown that (along with other unsuitable boats like multihulls) to be quite capable in that role. Remember the boats that you choose were only in fashion for a very short period of time, but now provide the major source of supply for aspirant bluewater sailors who cannot afford to buy a new boat. So not surprising it is what you, John and many others - including myself would choose such a boat because none of us can afford a new boat suitable for the job. However, the person who bought your boat when it was new chose it in preference to older style boats, just as the same type of person buying new today would probably choose a "modern" boat in preference to an old design.

As I pointed out, despite your concerns, modern boats with bolt on keels and spade rudders have proven themselves quite capable of bluewater cruising and at a guess will now represent a majority. Hardly surprising when such designs have dominated the market for getting on for 25 years. So fast forward another 30 or 40 years and a whole generation will have seen today's designs as the norm, although as you have probably noticed there is a distinct trend, mainly from France to build light displacement fast boats for ocean sailing, perhaps reflecting the success of that concept in ocean racing.

The demise of the style of boats you currently prefer has little to do with cost. The HRs for example which do still use that type of design are no more expensive than other boats of similar size and quality, and their new designs that are more modern are no cheaper, relatively than their predecessors. Pretty sure that if the big mas producers were to build old designs in volume they would not be any more expensive than current designs - just that nobody would buy them. All too easy to claim as you do that it is cost that is the issue, without any evidence to back it up, but ignoring the fact that buyers of new boats consciously make different choices from those restricted to secondhand boats where they can only choose from a range selected by past buyers.

 

[geem]

40 years ago the preferred "blue water" boat would have been one based on working craft - pilot cutters, fishing boats, lifeboats etc. So if this thread was run then it is the characteristics of that type of boat that would dominate peoples' wish lists. Then along came these new fangled GRP boats with separate keels and rudders and the "real" bluewater folks would not touch them with a bargepole. Of course the main reason why the old style boats were used was not because they were the best, but simply because they were what was available that was most suitable for the job.

Fast forward 40 years to now, and the once despised "modern" boats are now revered by bluewater sailors, having shown that (along with other unsuitable boats like multihulls) to be quite capable in that role. Remember the boats that you choose were only in fashion for a very short period of time, but now provide the major source of supply for aspirant bluewater sailors who cannot afford to buy a new boat. So not surprising it is what you, John and many others - including myself would choose such a boat because none of us can afford a new boat suitable for the job. However, the person who bought your boat when it was new chose it in preference to older style boats, just as the same type of person buying new today would probably choose a "modern" boat in preference to an old design.

As I pointed out, despite your concerns, modern boats with bolt on keels and spade rudders have proven themselves quite capable of bluewater cruising and at a guess will now represent a majority. Hardly surprising when such designs have dominated the market for getting on for 25 years. So fast forward another 30 or 40 years and a whole generation will have seen today's designs as the norm, although as you have probably noticed there is a distinct trend, mainly from France to build light displacement fast boats for ocean sailing, perhaps reflecting the success of that concept in ocean racing.

The demise of the style of boats you currently prefer has little to do with cost. The HRs for example which do still use that type of design are no more expensive than other boats of similar size and quality, and their new designs that are more modern are no cheaper, relatively than their predecessors. Pretty sure that if the big mas producers were to build old designs in volume they would not be any more expensive than current designs - just that nobody would buy them. All too easy to claim as you do that it is cost that is the issue, without any evidence to back it up, but ignoring the fact that buyers of new boats consciously make different choices from those restricted to secondhand boats where they can only choose from a range selected by past buyers.

it is interesting from the majority of responses here that people who have described what they want in a blue water boat do not describe the modern attributes such as bolt on keels, spade rudders, light displacement as desirable. Most people that have sailed some long distances tend to agree that if you are not racing, light displacement has little to offer in a cruising boat. The trend to copy racing designs is not a new one. It doesn't mean it is the correct one or the best one for long distance sailing or living aboard.

 

[GHA]

Most people that have sailed some long distances tend to agree that if you are not racing, light displacement has little to offer in a cruising boat. .

:encouragement:

Also, there's an awful lot of stuff out there, ropes, fishing nets. And it's almost certain that at some point mid ocean you'll run over a few, to sleep well at night it's nice to have done what you can to stack the odds in your favour. Unsupported spade rudder certainly does nothing to help in that respect.

 

[laika]

One that's available, keeps the water out and is ready to go.

People go to exotic places with all kinds of stuff and often don't die. I imagine their number is dwarfed by the number of people who spend years looking for and fitting out their "blue water boat" with all the "sensible" options then get hit by family, health, career or death-related issues before they've ever got west of Falmouth.

I've spent two years dithering over a removable inner forestay and a better fridge (obviously very sensible). I could have been sipping a beer in Atuona by now (from a convenient bar's fridge). Instead I spent a large part of yesterday evening tacking against an easterly and a foul tide towards Brighton.

 

[Tranona]

it is interesting from the majority of responses here that people who have described what they want in a blue water boat do not describe the modern attributes such as bolt on keels, spade rudders, light displacement as desirable. Most people that have sailed some long distances tend to agree that if you are not racing, light displacement has little to offer in a cruising boat. The trend to copy racing designs is not a new one. It doesn't mean it is the correct one or the best one for long distance sailing or living aboard.

Displacement has little to do with spade rudders and bolt on keels. The displacement on my new 33' boat is greater than many of similar size from an earlier time (greater than a Moody 346, same as a Rival 34 and only 300kg lighter than a Victoria 34 as examples). Also note that there is definite trend among those buying new boats specifically designed for ocean cruising to choose fast light displacement boats or boats that do not reflect what has been the norm from the past.

It is hardly surprising that responses to this thread reflect a received wisdom from the past as that is the boats that are available to those on limited budgets. I have already said that I would make a similar choice if I were buying a boat for ocean cruising, simply because I cannot afford to buy anything different. However, if I had the money, I would buy a new boat and it would not be a pastiche of something from the past.

As you have already seen I am a fan of new mass production boats having bought two new ones - but neither were purchased for the purpose of ocean cruising. Although they are both probably quite capable (several of the same design as my first one having successfully undertaken ocean passages) there are in my view better boats for the job. They were/are perfect for my use, which is why I bought them.

 

[richardbayle]

Do you want buy mine?

+1