What do you want a navigator to do?

[zoidberg]

By that, I mean a 'warm and walking' human bean. Not a branded electronic box, nor yet a crew member who is less than useful on deck. And it could include even you....

I raise the question as, looking back over >60 years of sailing, inshore, offshore and off soundings, I'm aware I've sailed with all sorts of 'rum coves' who've expected me to navigate, without them having a clear idea of what they want that role to be - or indeed, what it COULD be.

I confess I was a pro air nav for a couple of decades, expensively trained by pros, and later I taught that stuff - as I did saily nav in the guise of the RYA Shorebased courses. That had me bring a set of attitudes derived from centuries of others' trial and error.... as well as many tried and tested 'how-tos'. Remember - Sir Francis Chichester was a prominent air navigator before he took to chasing ocean sailing records, and he literally wrote the book for the RAF.

So, what do you expect when you back your BenJeanBav out of your finger berth and point her towards the western horizon? Pilotage nous? Weather routing? Where are we stuff? Where should we be and how....?

Or do you abdicate everything to Garmin or Raytheon....?

 

[RupertW]

First and foremost, advance planning.

Where are we ultimately aiming for and where do we hope to be in one week, and three weeks and why?

Closer to the time then planned courses with main obstacles and alternative ports or bays if something changes en route.

Then as it happens then good advice as we get close - watch out for this, or have you noticed that.

With all that in place the trip is all about sailing, eating and chilling.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I find advanced planning a complete waste of time .... it gets people excited about where they could go, they start looking on the internet, making their own requests, completely devoid of any concept of suitable shelter, holding etc. Expectations build, requests are made, plans are formulated, and then they are unwilling to change because they really, really, really wanted to visit a particular town or restaurant etc. Then they puke over my boat because we need to spend 5 hours motoring to windward to get to the first destination. Nope .... not doing that.

I tell them they'll have a great time regardless, that the itinerary is weather dependent and I'll tell them where exactly we're going nearer the time when I have the 3 day forecast. I scare them with stories of stuffed marinas which cost a fotune and are full of rowdy drunken all male crews, urinating on the pontoons late at night and I suggest comfortable anchorages instead.

It's worked a treat so far, I get left alone to decide where we are going, and everybody invariably ends up having a great time, coming back annually for more of the same.

Obviously if I was not just pottering around my extended cruising area or had a schedule to keep, and places to be, it would have to be different - but for leisure this approach works very well.

 

[dunedin]

Get us to the destination safely and comfortably, and have 2 or 3 alternative destinations worked out if Plan A doesn’t look attractive.
Safely includes knowing the hazards along the route (and avoiding them!) and comfortably includes using the weather and tides to our advantage (rather than battling them!).

On our boat I am usually skipper / navigator - as well as sail trimmer. Captains never steer if there are other crew (or working autopilot) on board.

 

[MontyMariner]

Never had one. A good cook / deck scrubber would be handy.

 

[flaming]

By that, I mean a 'warm and walking' human bean. Not a branded electronic box, nor yet a crew member who is less than useful on deck. And it could include even you....

I raise the question as, looking back over >60 years of sailing, inshore, offshore and off soundings, I'm aware I've sailed with all sorts of 'rum coves' who've expected me to navigate, without them having a clear idea of what they want that role to be - or indeed, what it COULD be.

I confess I was a pro air nav for a couple of decades, expensively trained by pros, and later I taught that stuff - as I did saily nav in the guise of the RYA Shorebased courses. That had me bring a set of attitudes derived from centuries of others' trial and error.... as well as many tried and tested 'how-tos'. Remember - Sir Francis Chichester was a prominent air navigator before he took to chasing ocean sailing records, and he literally wrote the book for the RAF.

So, what do you expect when you back your BenJeanBav out of your finger berth and point her towards the western horizon? Pilotage nous? Weather routing? Where are we stuff? Where should we be and how....?

Or do you abdicate everything to Garmin or Raytheon....?

Cruising / delivery then the basic planning of where we're going, what the tidal gates are, when we should leave, what the forecast says etc are done in advance. And then normally a route put into the plotter in accordance with that. So a nav, if it wasn't me, would then be asked to monitor the progress, suggest any deviations that looked like a good idea, and point out any issues.
Personally I demonstrably can navigate to a pretty decent standard. But running plots, DR nav etc is not what I get a kick out of, it's not why I go afloat, so when I'm the nav (which I normally am as I'm the skipper) I'm doing enough to verify what the plotter is telling me but mostly letting it get on with it.

On the race course the NAV is 100% focussed on the job in hand. When he says tack I don't question it, I just tack the boat.

 

[steveeasy]

Well I’ve never had anyone do my passage planning for me. I normally do my own or if I have a crew member on board I’ll plan my voyage with them in detail discussing all thing relevant. I also welcome their opinions.

Out at sea if I have someone tasked to navigate I discuss any issues and listen to their points of view and I then decide any course changes. It can be a fine balancing act depending on the type of person.
I recal being say 20 miles off Plymouth sound in thick fog at midnight. My navigator was sure with a broken chart plotter and only my Garmin 128 we could sail in at 2am. I decided to alter course and arrive at sunrise. It can be difficult to make calls with different opinions. That’s why the Skipper should make all calls. That however does not mean other crew have no say. It can be big calls and peoples safety is paramount.
Just one example of many where judgement is crucial.

So I expect a navigator to do his best but decisions must be fully relayed to the Skipper.

Steveeasy

 

[capnsensible]

By that, I mean a 'warm and walking' human bean. Not a branded electronic box, nor yet a crew member who is less than useful on deck. And it could include even you....

I raise the question as, looking back over >60 years of sailing, inshore, offshore and off soundings, I'm aware I've sailed with all sorts of 'rum coves' who've expected me to navigate, without them having a clear idea of what they want that role to be - or indeed, what it COULD be.

I confess I was a pro air nav for a couple of decades, expensively trained by pros, and later I taught that stuff - as I did saily nav in the guise of the RYA Shorebased courses. That had me bring a set of attitudes derived from centuries of others' trial and error.... as well as many tried and tested 'how-tos'. Remember - Sir Francis Chichester was a prominent air navigator before he took to chasing ocean sailing records, and he literally wrote the book for the RAF.

So, what do you expect when you back your BenJeanBav out of your finger berth and point her towards the western horizon? Pilotage nous? Weather routing? Where are we stuff? Where should we be and how....?

Or do you abdicate everything to Garmin or Raytheon....?

In them thar days on services yachts of various shapes and sizes, when GPS was but a twinkle in someone's genius box waiting to be launched into the small boat sailors world, I thought that being nav was dogs doohdahs. Always volunteered.

' I will be sick if I go down there' was the frequent plea from lubbers (various). So a gap easily filled. Whilst being occasionally busy with tide tables, sharpened pencil....and eraser, there was plenty of time to put ones feet up and smoke a bit. It was that long ago.

To make people think I was doing secret wizard stuff, the occasional 'about five miles to the mid channel buoy' ' tides ebbing now' ' forecast in 10 minutes' was enough. Of course regular tea wetting kept the cockpit happy. Asking if it is still raining, well, didn't.

But I enjoyed learning all the traditional stuff, giving skips a good short and easy to follow pilotage plan (learn to love your hand bearing compass) so nowadays, never fazed buy GPS tantrums. I was of that lucky era!

When Desmond decca arrived, it was still possible to bluff it as a magic box.

All that prepared me for my next life in Neptune's Realm.

 

[RupertW]

I find advanced planning a complete waste of time .... it gets people excited about where they could go, they start looking on the internet, making their own requests, completely devoid of any concept of suitable shelter, holding etc. Expectations build, requests are made, plans are formulated, and then they are unwilling to change because they really, really, really wanted to visit a particular town or restaurant etc. Then they puke over my boat because we need to spend 5 hours motoring to windward to get to the first destination. Nope .... not doing that.

I tell them they'll have a great time regardless, that the itinerary is weather dependent and I'll tell them where exactly we're going nearer the time when I have the 3 day forecast. I scare them with stories of stuffed marinas which cost a fotune and are full of rowdy drunken all male crews, urinating on the pontoons late at night and I suggest comfortable anchorages instead.

It's worked a treat so far, I get left alone to decide where we are going, and everybody invariably ends up having a great time, coming back annually for more of the same.

Obviously if I was not just pottering around my extended cruising area or had a schedule to keep, and places to be, it would have to be different - but for leisure this approach works very well.

Advance planning is everything for me, but casual crew dont get a day or even more than an outline of the plans for all the reasons you say.

The way we approach advance planning is me idly saying something like, “It’s 2015 now and we are going to be around the Greek islands for the Summer but I fancy Winter in the Grenadines in 2020, and it would be good to see the Western Med on the way”. Then I wait for the navigator to come up with a rough plan and distances and ideas within a couple of days, then refine it from there.

 

[Stemar]

I find advanced planning a complete waste of time .... it gets people excited about where they could go, they start looking on the internet, making their own requests, completely devoid of any concept of suitable shelter, holding etc. Expectations build, requests are made, plans are formulated, and then they are unwilling to change because they really, really, really wanted to visit a particular town or restaurant etc.

I reckon a good navigator will manage expectations and explain why request are, or are not granted - subject to conditions - in advance. (S)he will then sit down and try to put some foundations under the castles in the air with regard to the tides, suitable shelter and alternatives.

When they actually leave, they then explain why, with the wind in exactly the wrong direction and/or strength for the planned trip it ain't going to happen, rehash everything on the fly to make it a better trip than the one the I wants on board had dreamed up. Final job is to say, "Steer 240 degrees until we get to that waypoint" and get the kettle on.

Easy peasy

 

[SaltyC]

I am beginning to feel the years! You plan and God decides comes to mind.

Planning is done with all crew on a large scale paper chart around the table (possibly with a beverage), weather is discussed. An OUTLINE plan is hatched. Subject to weather, on a cruise I do not sail to a timetable, today is Tuesday we are going to....!

The Navigator will then make the plan, we will follow. IF they are less experienced and the plan is slightly less than ideal but NOT dangerous, we will follow - a learning point at debrief.

Unfortunately, me and my accompanying Zimmer frame still like paper for situational awareness, digital plotters great for pilotage once the geography is embodied in my (and all) analogue brains.

 

[Wansworth]

Once you have visited a distant shore it automatically becomes like home waters,if you don’t rely too much on gadget you will have a sense of place

 

[requiem]

This would be my general list; the formality of which can vary depending on the boat, the people, and the location. A number of these would also need to be coordinated with the skipper so both are aware of any controlling factors, and high level details shared out with everyone else.

The TL;DR version is to make the plan with the best available resources, to know the instruments are in good order, and to always know where we are and the plan for what's next.

The passage plan:

• Ensure current publications (charts, pilot books, cruising guides).
• Quality check: how current are the data, do alternative chart sources or online comments agree, etc.
• General route plan: identify any shelters en route, any hazards, any key landmarks or other references.
• Pilot and anchor plans: identify key marks to watch for, key turning points, hazards, safe escapes.
• Tides & currents review: best times for bar crossings, harbour entry/exit, any times where depth is an issue.
• Weather review: what's the forecast, how well do the different models agree, review of synoptic charts.
• Administrivia: rules & frequencies for VTS & bridges, contact details and hours for harbour offices, etc.

Aboard:

• Instrument checks: verify/adjust calibration and settings for compass/log/plotter/radar.

En route:

• Advanced notification for key events (coming up on a VTS zone, etc).
• Log-keeping and position plotting.
• Know where we are and have a current ETA for key locations (destination, alternatives, etc).
• Adjust plan as conditions require, or evaluate proposed changes.

Arrival/Stops:

• Pilotage in harbor/anchorage.
• Prep for anchor alarm/watch.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Get me to the pub before closing time, stand a round, get me back to the boat after closing time, be a good laugh, capable curry cooker, knows when the sun is over the yard arm and who takes what in their drinks.

 

[Wansworth]

Get me to the pub before closing time, stand a round, get me back to the boat after closing time, be a good laugh, capable curry cooker, knows when the sun is over the yard arm and who takes what in their drinks.

Worked on a dredger and try as we might we just managed to get a rope on the quay……..but not near enough to get ashore……..21.30…Friday night

 

[Chiara’s slave]

On the race course the NAV is 100% focussed on the job in hand. When he says tack I don't question it, I just tack the boat.

That's a rare quality in a race skipper. Often the moment is missed during the explanation of why. Maybe it helps if the skipper trusts the navigator and knows what ‘tack now for the lucky left’ means.

 

[flaming]

That's a rare quality in a race skipper. Often the moment is missed during the explanation of why. Maybe it helps if the skipper trusts the navigator and knows what ‘tack now for the lucky left’ means.

It helps that for 15 years the owner was the nav. Now I’ve taken over owner duties, the habit is there.

 

[zoidberg]

I'm tempted to ask the next question - "What does the skipper do?"

 

[flaming]

I'm tempted to ask the next question - "What does the skipper do?"

Signs the cheques.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

1) Check the forecast to see if the weather tomorrow is decent enough to let us go anywhere.
2) If (1) is a go, then have a look at what destinations are accessible on the port tack to starboard tack via a dead run.
3) Dig out the relevant big Imray chart and come up with a passage plan and jot down a few waypoints.
4) Guestimate times to waypoints based on tides, boat speed under engine in a flat calm to doubled reefed in an F7.
5) Explain to crew why weather forecasts aren’t always accurate, tides are affected by barometric pressure and the phase of the moon and wind gets a bit screwy round headlands, mountains and islands and that’s why we’re late.