What 8 metre boat is for me?

[Tranona]

For £25k budget to a ready to go boat you are in more modern boats including Sadler 29 and 32, possibly Fulmar, Moody 30 and 33 and if you trade off speed for ruggedness a Golden Hind 31 plus many more lesser known designs like Rustler 31, Elizabethan 30. Avoid any boat that needs major bits of kit as the cost is way out of proportion to the value of the boat. Decent sails will be £4k, replacing seacocks £800-1000. rigging £2-3k even DIY. Don't get too hung up on design, condition is far more important. the boat is a means to an end for what you plan, not an end in itself.

You are more likely to find a larger boat in decent condition than a Vega sized boat simply because few people are willing to spend money on a low value boat to keep it going and a bigger/better boat will likely sell easier when the time comes. Your example of the Hydrovane illustrates the mismatch between buying gear for cruising and value of boat - nav gear, autopilots, electrics and to an extent sails and rigging cost much the same for a 30' boat as a skinny little 27'

 

[MontyMariner]

I like a challenge, but am I right in thinking you’d be eyeing up shelter in a F6?

If you know it's coming you stay at home, if you're out in it, rig for it and live with it!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Well it would go astern but the prop was behind the rudder……I would say it was vague

They sll move in a backwards kind of direction, the issue with all boats of that type, or long keelers, is exactly where you’ll end up. Something that needs to be taken into account when finding a mooring for them. Those boats are from an age before finger berths were a thing, and the need for close quarters manoeuvres in reverse just wasn’t so imperative. My mooring neighbour has a Vancouver, we often shove him off if the tide is flooding when he leaves, or take a stern line and sweat him in on arrival. Lots of fun he sails solo. A Sadler would be much easier to park, but less reassuring when it really comes on to blow.

 

[webcraft]

Plenty of Albin Vegas around in excellent condition in the £6k - £8k range. A very handy wee boat for a cheap liveaboard/offshore cruiser. I've sailed mine from Scotland to the Canaries and the Azores and to Shetland and Norway. You need to be 5' 8" or under to be comfy though.

- W

 

[Refueler]

Vega ???? No sorry - old and cramped. I know they have a following and they are cheap - but there is a good reason they are cheap.

There are plenty of Westerly's out there ... even the Centaur is a better accommodating boat than a Vega, even my Sunrider 25 has more accoms than a Vega ... and that brings us to keel config ...

Fin Keels are fine as long as you prepared for the limits of places you can visit - duck into etc. Bilge Keels will give you a wider range of places to enter - mooring options etc.

Boats :

Mirage
Westerly
Colvic

are popular and many can be found at budget price ... yes I know some sellers have a golden view of their boat and ask silly money - so just offer a market based price - walk away if they don't like it ... plenty of other boats out there.

Those three are just examples to consider ... there are many other marques out there ...

I suggest getting on something like Boats for Sale and just enter Sailboat 25 - 30ft and look through - see what takes your fancy.

You and wife will KNOW the boat you want within minutes of getting on board ... others you will umm and arr about .. but have a feeling in the gut its not quite there.

You will read a lot of guff about old engines and costs to replace an-all .... its mostly just crap .. sorry but I know lots of boats still with their original old engines still providing good service ... if you were to see the rusty lump in my 25 - you'd think it was well past it ... but press the button and that over 50yr old Perkins 4-107 will purr along all day and night with not a hint of trouble.

 

[Refueler]

Plenty of Albin Vegas around in excellent condition in the £6k - £8k range. A very handy wee boat for a cheap liveaboard/offshore cruiser. I've sailed mine from Scotland to the Canaries and the Azores and to Shetland and Norway. You need to be 5' 8" or under to be comfy though.

- W

You can pick up a Vega and even its bigger sister in Baltics for a lot less than 6K .... I knew someone who used to buy them in Sweden ... bring back to UK and clean up ... near double priced at sale and still only about 6K.

Not forgetting the strange rudder - prop setup .....

 

[Wansworth]

The yard I bought my Vega in and subsequently kept her in was home to three Vegas.Theyard was at the end of a muddy creek accessible on Springs but the Vegas only went out one a year to distant shores…..except err mine.Fine little boats if a little tender initially

 

[Wansworth]

They sll move in a backwards kind of direction, the issue with all boats of that type, or long keelers, is exactly where you’ll end up. Something that needs to be taken into account when finding a mooring for them. Those boats are from an age before finger berths were a thing, and the need for close quarters manoeuvres in reverse just wasn’t so imperative. My mooring neighbour has a Vancouver, we often shove him off if the tide is flooding when he leaves, or take a stern line and sweat him in on arrival. Lots of fun he sails solo. A Sadler would be much easier to park, but less reassuring when it really comes on to blow.

That’s the trouble with the youth of today,everything has to be easy

 

[Goldie]

Ok, not fin keeled, not keel stepped mast and slightly bigger than the 27/28ft that you envisage but…

… my choice would be a Halmatic 30. Not much longer than a Vega (at 29’ 6”) but massively more accommodation and storage. Proven sea keeping too and have circumnavigated. You might even find one with a wind vane .

Like this: Halmatic 30 for sale UK, Halmatic boats for sale, Halmatic used boat sales, Halmatic Sailing Yachts For Sale 1979 Halmatic 30 - Apollo Duck

Recent engine and standing rigging too.

 

[Stemar]

While there are exceptions, I reckon that the difference between an offshore cruiser and an ocean crosser has far more to do with the crew than the boat.

I wouldn't choose a Snapdragon or any of the similar tubby boats from the 70s, nor a lightweight racing machine, but the vast majority of boats that go to windward reasonably well are going to stand up to bad weather at least as well as the crew.

 

[johnalison]

Hi all for getting in touch,

Can I reply to you in order?

Minerva;

I completely see where you are coming from, and you’ve made me check my ambitions…. Insofar as recommending a larger boat!

I was sort of chasing the Jester Challenge ethos, but I hear you in that being able to sustain things long term is key, if I can paraphrase. And of course it’s very easy to slip into the idea of a forever boat, which can look after kids and a dog! A 30-odd moody is a very easy sell in this case!

Ridgy;

If we go the whole hog and equip ourselves to do the ARC or something similar, we could dig out £25k, plus the working expenses for the months it would take. Our quote for the Hydrovane steering on a sub-30 foot boat is circa £5k, which is a bit frightening! I’ve got quite a few industry contacts which could maybe take some of the sting out of things like rigging, LSA and paint systems.



JohnAlison;

Thanks for your comprehensive reply! In the way we anticipate sailing, I think we can live with a small galley and a couple of pans… And that quarter berth will be useful. I like a challenge, but am I right in thinking you’d be eyeing up shelter in a F6?

Thanks everyone; it’s plenty to ponder, and great to have all your input!

I have read of people crossing the Channel in a F9 in a S29 and I’m sure the boat would be capable of it. I think that the most we ever went out in in open sea conditions would have been downwind in a F6-7 from Brighton to Dover, which was enjoyable but I wouldn’t have wanted to be heading upwind at that time, though you could say the same for most boats of that size. In order to be comfortable you would probably need less freeboard, but at the price of a much wetter boat with less accommodation, so it’s a matter of compromise.

 

[doug748]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I think you've both identified some of the reasons we're looking for the 'minimum boat'; the ongoing costs of ownership beyond the refit stage in terms of berthing, insurance and so on......

I always think there is a sweet spot when it comes to a boat you are going to use for extended cruising, an extra metre of two can give you so much more usable accommodation and comfort at sea.

After a quarter of a century blathering in this place I will break the habit of this lifetime and suggest a Contessa 32. You get get a very usable one for your budget, probably with windvane to boot. The advantages of this design are legion but bloated size is not one of them, if you and crew are larger than average I would look elsewhere:

Boats for sale UK, used boats, new boat sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

Below 20k they tend to need expenditure or have some specific defect. A cheaper alternative would be a Rival 32/4 which I think has already been mentioned.

.

 

[Tranona]

You can pick up a Vega and even its bigger sister in Baltics for a lot less than 6K .... I knew someone who used to buy them in Sweden ... bring back to UK and clean up ... near double priced at sale and still only about 6K.

Not forgetting the strange rudder - prop setup .....

There are often differences between "markets" that can be exploited whether it is because of differences in fiscal regimes, regulations, currency values, but they are usually temporary. Examples are boats from US to UK in the 80s and 90s, partly currency related, partly choice of boats, but killed by the RCD. The EU opening up of borders created other situations, also currency related that made buying a new boat in France or Belgium attractive for UK buyers in the 2000s. Killed by harmonisation of prices by the builders and VAT rates plus fluctuations in exchange rates. Remember the queues across the Franco Belgian border to buy tobacco? or the day trips to Calais to load up with cheap booze? Sweden has always been an attractive source for certain kinds of boat. One of our club members bought a 45' Windy in 2019 and sailed it back. as you say Vegas (and Folkboats) had their time in the sun when there was a shortage of this type of boat in the UK but those days are long gone, killed by Brexit. Nobody in their right mind would contemplate buying a Vega in Sweden for use in the UK.

 

[Wansworth]

A bilge Keeler will mean it can be left more or less securely plonked down in a yard for a longtime

 

[oldmanofthehills]

As an owner of an 8.5m boat, I can tell you that its too small for comfort in an F6 and downright unpleasant in F7. Having had a Westerly Pentland I can confirm that a heavier longer boat is better less tiring/frightening and if I wanted ocean capability I would not go less that 31ft 9.5m and would prefer 10+

I am sure the Vega is capable despite its small size but narrow old fashioned designs are off putting for many especially our womenfolk

Get it wrong and it will put off partners for life

 

[Refueler]

There are often differences between "markets" that can be exploited whether it is because of differences in fiscal regimes, regulations, currency values, but they are usually temporary. Examples are boats from US to UK in the 80s and 90s, partly currency related, partly choice of boats, but killed by the RCD. The EU opening up of borders created other situations, also currency related that made buying a new boat in France or Belgium attractive for UK buyers in the 2000s. Killed by harmonisation of prices by the builders and VAT rates plus fluctuations in exchange rates. Remember the queues across the Franco Belgian border to buy tobacco? or the day trips to Calais to load up with cheap booze? Sweden has always been an attractive source for certain kinds of boat. One of our club members bought a 45' Windy in 2019 and sailed it back. as you say Vegas (and Folkboats) had their time in the sun when there was a shortage of this type of boat in the UK but those days are long gone, killed by Brexit. Nobody in their right mind would contemplate buying a Vega in Sweden for use in the UK.

You would be surprised ... at the price they go for - people still buy.

 

[Wansworth]

As an owner of an 8.5m boat, I can tell you that its too small for comfort in an F6 and downright unpleasant in F7. Having had a Westerly Pentland I can confirm that a heavier longer boat is better less tiring/frightening and if I wanted ocean capability I would not go less that 31ft 9.5m and would prefer 10+

I am sure the Vega is capable despite its small size but narrow old fashioned designs are off putting for many especially our womenfolk

Get it wrong and it will put off partners for life

Once across the channel is possible to day sail all the way to the Greek islands(more or less)

 

[Refueler]

A bilge Keeler will mean it can be left more or less securely plonked down in a yard for a longtime

Drying mooring .. Winter ashore stands without cradle ... shallow draft ... usually 'tub like' hull giving good volume for length. And contrary to many posts - most do not sail like bathtubs with a hanky .. some in fact can put on quite a turn of speed ..

 

[steveeasy]

I always think there is a sweet spot when it comes to a boat you are going to use for extended cruising, an extra metre of two can give you so much more usable accommodation and comfort at sea.

After a quarter of a century blathering in this place I will break the habit of this lifetime and suggest a Contessa 32. You get get a very usable one for your budget, probably with windvane to boot. The advantages of this design are legion but bloated size is not one of them, if you and crew are larger than average I would look elsewhere:

Boats for sale UK, used boats, new boat sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

Below 20k they tend to need expenditure or have some specific defect. A cheaper alternative would be a Rival 32/4 which I think has already been mentioned.

.

Lots of ugly ducks bobbing about. Id rather have something that makes me smile rather than cry.
Steveeasy

 

[Refueler]

Oh ... and I would think again about Keel Stepped mast .. yes they are fine ... but on the size of boat OP is looking at - better to go DECK stepped .. then a simple A frame can raise and lower the mast instead of needing a crane to lift a keel stepped job.

Even my 38ft racer has a deck stepped mast ... but that is a real tall affair and not for A frame ... but my 25ft - it makes life so much better .. takes longer to slacken stays than it does to lower or raise it. I can even do it singled handed.