What 8 metre boat is for me?

[Caer Urfa]

I would be very careful buying a 'Project boat' as to one needing some upgrading and TLC

When I was Surveying few project boats ever got finished,
few ever reached the relaunch planned,
and most end up as a money pit
far better to save a bit more and buy something you can at least get some fun out of while at the same time do some upgrading/repairs

 

[Stemar]

Unless you're going for a junk or similar unstayed rig, which do have some advantages, I don't see a keel stepped mast offering much extra over a deck stepped one - apart from a source of leaks. If something fails in the standing rigging, chances are, the mast is coming down anyway, and it's going to be a lot harder to get rid of it so you can sort out a jury-rig with the boom

 

[Tranona]

You would be surprised ... at the price they go for - people still buy.

It is not a matter of price - it would be illegal to import a Vega from Sweden into the UK. Even if you consider price a top notch legal Vega in the UK is £5-6k. So, even ignoring the legal aspects I would be amazed, not just surprised if anyone would buy one in the Sweden and bring it to the UK in the hope of making a profit.

As I suggestion that is a thing of the past

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Once across the channel is possible to day sail all the way to the Greek islands(more or less)

We sail regularly from Plymouth to Brittany and have toured the Scottish small islands in our 8,5, but navigator refuses to go to sea in F6 so get stuck in harbour in ways we were not in our Westerly 31/32. Even I would not enjoy a 36 hour passage to Brest in our rubber duck in F6.

The OP already advised that wife is not sea mad and I think he would rather keep wife and choose boat accordingly

 

[Refueler]

I’d give some serious thought as to what you want to achieve.

Big miles / ARC ocean crossings. That’s all going to cost £££ over the purchase price for new rigging / windvane / new instruments; those costs will be (in the grand scheme of things) negligibly different in cost whether you go for a 28ft boat or 34ft and you won’t add to the resale by the same amount.

[/QUOTE]

Think we can rule out Ocean stuff .. big dreams usually condense a lot .. lets think N.Sea .. E. Chnl ... Irish Sea ...

I have checked over hundreds of boats of all sorts of shape and size and more often than not - the small to moderate sized older boats on rigging was oversized and fine. Instruments - if working - whats problem ? Having reduced the 'mileage' factor .. Windvane ?

Not trying to be rude or anything but just more shall we say 'realistic' ?

A couple sailing in a 28ft boat will be a cramped experience - small water tanks, small fuel tanks.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the go small / go now principle I’d be inclined to go for a boat nearer 34ft to to give significantly more living space.

I’m thinking of the young couple on YouTube - chasing currents I think - who poured a lot of money into a 28ft boat, sailed to the med then quickly gave up the sailing life. They must have lost a lot of money in that endeavour.

So to answer your question - I’d be looking at a moody 33, Moody 34 or Westerly Discuss. You’ll get MUCH more living space for a relatively small amount of uplift in upfront cost.

The boats you quote are all good and would be on my list ... but more towards the Bilge Keelers - that way mooring and shore costs are significantly lower and wider possibilities.

On the subject of cramped ... my 25ft Sunrider .... 3 of us had a great time - 8 days in Swedish Archipelago ... took a bit of thought - but it really worked. When boat was in UK (Solent) ... many occasions there was Myself + wife .. my Business Partnr and his Wife on that 25ft for long weekends ..
OP is talking him and wife .. if he gets a sensible hull shape and cabin layout 27ft and up is doable.

It was not that long ago that couples were enjoying cruises in Alacrity 19's ... Jag 21's .. Pageants .. Snapdragons ...

 

[Buck Turgidson]

As an owner of an 8.5m boat, I can tell you that its too small for comfort in an F6 and downright unpleasant in F7. Having had a Westerly Pentland I can confirm that a heavier longer boat is better less tiring/frightening and if I wanted ocean capability I would not go less that 31ft 9.5m and would prefer 10+

I am sure the Vega is capable despite its small size but narrow old fashioned designs are off putting for many especially our womenfolk

Get it wrong and it will put off partners for life

As the owner of a 8.5m boat which I have sailed extensively off shore in everything up to and including F9 I can say that I have felt secure and safe in all circumstances. With enough stowage and tankage for 2-3 week voyages.
The OP just needs to look at a few boats and choose the one that speaks to him. The choice is so wide that individual suggestions are a bit meaningless. Having said that if he can’t afford an RM890 he should buy a twister.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Lots of ugly ducks bobbing about. Id rather have something that makes me smile rather than cry.
Steveeasy

Exactly. Buy with your heart and you are never wrong

 

[mrming]

If you avoid marinas for your permanent berth, it should be possible to run a slightly bigger boat and do your own maintenance without costs getting ridiculous. The Halmatic 30 suggestion from @Goldie is a good one. Fundamentally, though, as @Tranona and others have said, buy on condition. It’s a buyer’s market for small, tough cruising boats in the UK at the moment, and you should be able to get a well maintained base boat around 30 feet that you can add your choice of upgrades to.

 

[Minerva]

On the subject of cramped ... my 25ft Sunrider .... 3 of us had a great time - 8 days in Swedish Archipelago ... took a bit of thought - but it really worked. When boat was in UK (Solent) ... many occasions there was Myself + wife .. my Business Partnr and his Wife on that 25ft for long weekends ..
OP is talking him and wife .. if he gets a sensible hull shape and cabin layout 27ft and up is doable.

It was not that long ago that couples were enjoying cruises in Alacrity 19's ... Jag 21's .. Pageants .. Snapdragons ...

19ft! Luxury! I used to only dream of that extra foot when I had my 18ft boat!

However having been the owner of an 18ft boat. Then a 25ft folk boat and now a 34ft Moody - I can say with a decent chunk of years’ worth of experience going over 30’ starts to give you a whole different world of comfort if planning more than the odd night aboard with only a small increase in annual expenditure.

Therefore I’d argue they are better value than a small boat.

The fact that you wander round any marina, or mooring field, or look around most anchorages to see that most boats fall into the 10-12m category to see that most other boat owners probably tend to feel similarly.

 

[doug748]

.....Therefore I’d argue they are better value than a small boat.....

Indeed, you sum it up, that is what I was groping to say in my last post. In a marina an extra 2 metres may cost £8 a night or maybe £900 a year

On the smaller boat you are often camping. People can't get past you in the galley, the same with the chart table if you have one at all. You may have poor headroom and be moving around at a crouch. You sit opposite each other in the saloon playing footsie, crew can't move forward or aft without disturbing others. You commonly relax in the evening staring across at a gas stove.

Moving larger, say from 8m to 10m you suddenly feel you are in a place to live rather than a small boat. You commonly have ample berths, galley with dedicated storage, maybe a U shaped settee with lounging room, often heating, bookshelves, much better stowage. You may have separate heads and you can often idle at the chart table with a laptop and plenty of power to run it.
The difference is most felt when you have to spend a few wet days at anchor or on a mooring, where the extra cost is nothing or a few Euros.

Nothing against smaller boats but for living aboard the differences can be stark. There are exceptions but small boats that major on accommodation are not generally those you would wish to take on the ARC

As Minerva has said, with smaller boats the extra length is really good value.

.

 

[Refueler]

You and wife will KNOW the boat you want within minutes of getting on board ... others you will umm and arr about .. but have a feeling in the gut its not quite there.

...................

 

[dunedin]

……..

The OP already advised that wife is not sea mad and I think he would rather keep wife and choose boat accordingly

I suspect that is a very key point - and why something like a Westerly Fulmar would be MASSIVELY more appealing and liveable for an extended period than a Vega or similar. And more comfortable at sea.

 

[DoubleEnder]

Once across the channel is possible to day sail all the way to the Greek islands(more or less)

Yes I knew of someone who did just this, in a Sabre 27. I like those boats! If you can get one with a decent engine they are good, great headroom, decent cockpit and space below. Good enough, and pretty cheap to moor etc. maybe not a Blue Water Boat sure, but that may be ok.
I do think height and size of crew are going to be important criteria. I had a Carter 30 and a fat (ish) friend couldn't get in to the head.

I also think that buying new sails, while expensive, is an absolute pleasure, and saving a bit of money and persisting with 10 year old sails in 'serviceable' condition is missing the point. I like sailing. And visiting one's sailmaker, like visiting one's tailor or barber is a pleasure and a privilege to be enjoyed.

 

[Gixer]

to do some significant miles aboard, before children appear on the scene.

Andy

For me that was less than a year from marriage and buying my 27f to first child appearing on the scene..... DOH.

 

[dunedin]

For me that was less than a year from marriage and buying my 27f to first child appearing on the scene..... DOH.

These V berths were very cramped ……

 

[Gixer]

These V berths were very cramped ……

They do say Women and Sea Men don't mix...

 

[oldmanofthehills]

These V berths were very cramped ……

We have thought about getting the saloon berths out rather than our normal retreat to ready set up v berth, however with age comes patience and the knowledge that we have comfy kingsize bed waiting for us ashore. For the young it might indeed be different.

 

[Stemar]

On the subject of cramped ... my 25ft Sunrider .... 3 of us had a great time - 8 days in Swedish Archipelago ... took a bit of thought - but it really worked. When boat was in UK (Solent) ... many occasions there was Myself + wife .. my Business Partnr and his Wife on that 25ft for long weekends ..
OP is talking him and wife .. if he gets a sensible hull shape and cabin layout 27ft and up is doable.

It was not that long ago that couples were enjoying cruises in Alacrity 19's ... Jag 21's .. Pageants .. Snapdragons ...

We had a Snapdragon 24 for years. In the paperwork that came with her, we found a review from one of the yottie magazines that described her as "a capable family cruiser".

Actually, she was, provided you had a small family, and didn't mind using the engine if the wind was in the wrong direction.

 

[mrming]

I suspect that is a very key point - and why something like a Westerly Fulmar would be MASSIVELY more appealing and liveable for an extended period than a Vega or similar. And more comfortable at sea.

I have a fin keel Fulmar. Fast, tough, comfortable, lots of space below. The only thing I’d note is the fractional rig with swept back spreaders. If the OP is going trade wind sailing, a masthead rig might be better, so they can let the main out fully for wing on wing. For more mixed points of sail she is great.

 

[dunedin]

I have a fin keel Fulmar. Fast, tough, comfortable, lots of space below. The only thing I’d note is the fractional rig with swept back spreaders. If the OP is going trade wind sailing, a masthead rig might be better, so they can let the main out fully for wing on wing. For more mixed points of sail she is great.

Even with the main sheeted a bit too far in, a Fulmar 32 will still whizz dead downwind far faster than most 28 footers (and indeed many 32 footers)