What 8 metre boat is for me?

[AndyOC]

Hello fellow YBW’s!

Myself and my wife are looking at taking on a project boat, aiming at around 27 / 28 foot mark. We are looking to invest some time and cash into a boat this side of summer 25, an to do some significant miles aboard, before children appear on the scene. My own background is as a commercial sailor, and I’ve done a few ocean crossings, but thats all involved bigger, very often far bigger, boats.

My reflex is to go fin keel and keel stepped mast, but of course when you get sporty and slender in 28 feet you suddenly run out of places to sleep! The Albin Vega seems to be almost the 'default' small boat for proper passagemaking, but does feel really quite small for a wife who doesn’t quite live and breathe a week at sea at a time!

What does everyone make of the Vega, and what alternatives are there out there? We aren’t afraid to invest the money in the right boat, but we are also keen to keep LOA down; if I want a big LOA I can go to work! That said, we’ve got a ‘never say never’ approach to things like the ARC, so we can be any shorter than 27 feet, either!

We’d be delighted to hear your thoughts!

Andy

 

[Porthandbuoy]

A lot depends on your budget and the ratio between purchase price and refurb cost. You’ll need to differentiate between cosmetic improvements, eg. Paint, varnish, re-upholstery and new headlining; safety related stuff like seacocks, lifejackets, gas and electrics plus the possibility of a new engine, standing rigging, and suit of sails.
Don’t forget running costs; marina charges, winter storage, insurance.

I went though the same process as you when I bought my previous boat, a Nicholson 26.

 

[johnalison]

I suspect that a project boat will be just that; a project. If you are very capable you might get onto the water in a couple of years or so, but too many fizzle out. I have to admit to having no experience in boat refurbishment but the happiest owner I met had bought an Oyster 40 from a widow that, the boat not the widow, had been neglected for a few years. As it was, the boat was basically just very dirty and needed only cleaning and a bit of work that the new owner, a craft teacher, as well capable of.

I am a fin keel enthusiast myself and the boat in that size that I owned was a Sadler 29, actually around 28’ 6. This would be a perfectly good subject but there are many others. I found the Westerly Merlin a bit cramped in comparison but I think there was quite a nice Moody 27 for a short time. Most of these boats are more in the line of offshore craft rather than ocean goers, though many have made long trips in the hands of the enterprising. I have seen many Vegas but know little about them except that the owners don’t seem to enjoy going astern.

 

[AndyOC]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I think you've both identified some of the reasons we're looking for the 'minimum boat'; the ongoing costs of ownership beyond the refit stage in terms of berthing, insurance and so on.

We also are looking for pared back experience, not only for the price, but for the experience. We took a look at Wauqiez 31 not too long ago, and we we're not certain what the extra LOA gave us, beyond a steering wheel and the mainsheet track across the cockpit. We also took a look at a Sabre 27, which felt a fair balance.

In terms of refit and restoration, we're not actively seeking a rotting wreck as an article of faith! Obviously the ratio of purchase to refit costs does rather depend on the purchase price, but we've made our peace with new standing and running rigging, and most likely a new suit of sails and a fresh set of trudesign throughulls. I've spent a few winter seasons working at boatyards, and while I'm no pro, I can whip up a batch of epoxy and slather it about with the best of them!

@john alison great to hear you rate the Sadler; it's been on my radar as a nice combination of seakeeping and volume, but I've not seen one in the flesh. How did you find the cockpit; would you be comfortable helming in a blow for a few days?

Thanks again guys!

 

[Poignard]

Twister?

 

[Minerva]

Hello fellow YBW’s!

Myself and my wife are looking at taking on a project boat, aiming at around 27 / 28 foot mark. We are looking to invest some time and cash into a boat this side of summer 25, an to do some significant miles aboard, before children appear on the scene. My own background is as a commercial sailor, and I’ve done a few ocean crossings, but thats all involved bigger, very often far bigger, boats.

My reflex is to go fin keel and keel stepped mast, but of course when you get sporty and slender in 28 feet you suddenly run out of places to sleep! The Albin Vega seems to be almost the 'default' small boat for proper passagemaking, but does feel really quite small for a wife who doesn’t quite live and breathe a week at sea at a time!

What does everyone make of the Vega, and what alternatives are there out there? We aren’t afraid to invest the money in the right boat, but we are also keen to keep LOA down; if I want a big LOA I can go to work! That said, we’ve got a ‘never say never’ approach to things like the ARC, so we can be any shorter than 27 feet, either!

We’d be delighted to hear your thoughts!

Andy

I’d give some serious thought as to what you want to achieve.

Big miles / ARC ocean crossings. That’s all going to cost £££ over the purchase price for new rigging / windvane / new instruments; those costs will be (in the grand scheme of things) negligibly different in cost whether you go for a 28ft boat or 34ft and you won’t add to the resale by the same amount.

A couple sailing in a 28ft boat will be a cramped experience - small water tanks, small fuel tanks.

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with the go small / go now principle I’d be inclined to go for a boat nearer 34ft to to give significantly more living space.

I’m thinking of the young couple on YouTube - chasing currents I think - who poured a lot of money into a 28ft boat, sailed to the med then quickly gave up the sailing life. They must have lost a lot of money in that endeavour.

So to answer your question - I’d be looking at a moody 33, Moody 34 or Westerly Discuss. You’ll get MUCH more living space for a relatively small amount of uplift in upfront cost.

 

[ridgy]

Budget?

 

[johnalison]

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I think you've both identified some of the reasons we're looking for the 'minimum boat'; the ongoing costs of ownership beyond the refit stage in terms of berthing, insurance and so on.

We also are looking for pared back experience, not only for the price, but for the experience. We took a look at Wauqiez 31 not too long ago, and we we're not certain what the extra LOA gave us, beyond a steering wheel and the mainsheet track across the cockpit. We also took a look at a Sabre 27, which felt a fair balance.

In terms of refit and restoration, we're not actively seeking a rotting wreck as an article of faith! Obviously the ratio of purchase to refit costs does rather depend on the purchase price, but we've made our peace with new standing and running rigging, and most likely a new suit of sails and a fresh set of trudesign throughulls. I've spent a few winter seasons working at boatyards, and while I'm no pro, I can whip up a batch of epoxy and slather it about with the best of them!

@john alison great to hear you rate the Sadler; it's been on my radar as a nice combination of seakeeping and volume, but I've not seen one in the flesh. How did you find the cockpit; would you be comfortable helming in a blow for a few days?

Thanks again guys!

Hi. We had a 29 from new for twelve years from 1987. It was a very handy boat that served us well. The cavity-foam hull made it rigid and relatively condensation free. It has a very comfortable saloon and decent berths, especially the quarter berth, but a fairly small but ok galley. With a fairly high freeboard, it is reasonably dry to sail but the hull is somewhat slab-sided and needs to be reefed at the right time to work well. We generally kept pace with a Sadler 32 when cruising, until going to windward over F4, when they left us behind. We sailed Channel and North Sea quite happily in summer weather but I think you would have to be pretty robust to enjoy anything much over F6.

 

[AndyOC]

Hi all for getting in touch,

Can I reply to you in order?

Minerva;

I completely see where you are coming from, and you’ve made me check my ambitions…. Insofar as recommending a larger boat!

I was sort of chasing the Jester Challenge ethos, but I hear you in that being able to sustain things long term is key, if I can paraphrase. And of course it’s very easy to slip into the idea of a forever boat, which can look after kids and a dog! A 30-odd moody is a very easy sell in this case!

Ridgy;

If we go the whole hog and equip ourselves to do the ARC or something similar, we could dig out £25k, plus the working expenses for the months it would take. Our quote for the Hydrovane steering on a sub-30 foot boat is circa £5k, which is a bit frightening! I’ve got quite a few industry contacts which could maybe take some of the sting out of things like rigging, LSA and paint systems.



JohnAlison;

Thanks for your comprehensive reply! In the way we anticipate sailing, I think we can live with a small galley and a couple of pans… And that quarter berth will be useful. I like a challenge, but am I right in thinking you’d be eyeing up shelter in a F6?

Thanks everyone; it’s plenty to ponder, and great to have all your input!

 

[Minerva]

Actually to add on to this - for low budget uber capable off shore boats; rival 32 / 34 look to be astonishing value; seen a good few in the £15k price point and you’ll probably find one with an Aries hanging off the back too!

Bang for buck, they must be hard to beat!

*** edit ***

This one is £13k with an aeries.

Replace the standing rigging, new sails and some new batteries and you’ll be sailing over the horizon for <£20k.

 

[dansaskip]

A couple sailing in a 28ft boat will be a cramped experience - small water tanks, small fuel tanks.

That is just not true of all 27 - 28 ft boots. The notable exception is a Vancouver 27 or 28. Fuel tank is 28 gallon or 127 litres and water tankage is50 gal or 227 litres. They also have standing headroom and were designed specifically for long distance sailing for a couple. Not only that but you wouldn't seek to seek out shelter in an F6. I admit I am biased, owing one and having sailed it across Atlantic and Pacific. Anyway all the best in your search.

 

[Minerva]

That is just not true of all 27 - 28 ft boots. The notable exception is a Vancouver 27 or 28. Fuel tank is 28 gallon or 127 litres and water tankage is50 gal or 227 litres. They also have standing headroom and were designed specifically for long distance sailing for a couple. Not only that but you wouldn't seek to seek out shelter in an F6. I admit I am biased, owing one and having sailed it across Atlantic and Pacific. Anyway all the best in your search.

Fully accept the Vancouver being a bit of an exceptional boat.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

They are dog slow compared to some other designs mentioned. Theres a sacrifice to be made whatever you choose at this size, be it space, weatherliness, cost, or whatever. I am pleased the OP has his maintenance priorities in the right order though, at least they’ll have a boat to rely on. That’s one compromise I wouldn’t make.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Second vote for a Twister obvs!

 

[Wansworth]

Had an Albin Vega……not that we went far Butthe have a good seagoing pedigree…..minimum layout perfect for two ,good settee berths

 

[Wansworth]

Macwester 28 worth a look

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Had an Albin Vega……not that we went far Butthe have a good seagoing pedigree…..minimum layout perfect for two ,good settee berths

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to decide to buy it

 

[Wansworth]

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to decide to buy it

Took quite a while as you can imagine ……but we had a happy few years …..except the wretched thing wouldn’t go astern

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Took quite a while as you can imagine ……but we had a happy few years …..except the wretched thing wouldn’t go astern

That’s quite a common compromise to have to make. Our tri goes astern just as easily as forwards. It has very different compromises.

 

[Wansworth]

That’s quite a common compromise to have to make. Our tri goes astern just as easily as forwards. It has very different compromises.

Well it would go astern but the prop was behind the rudder……I would say it was vague