Westerly Storm vs. Dehler31 - any opinions?

[Tomahawk]

You need to also ask the same question on a Dutch forum. Dehlers are comparitively rare in the UK wheras old Westerlies are ten a penny over here so you are getting a very biassed response. I had a D34 and rated it far above the equilavent Westerly. But then like any boat owner I am biassed.

 

[AJ_01]

You need to also ask the same question on a Dutch forum. ... I had a D34 and rated it far above the equilavent Westerly.

Good point, will check that out. I am just not a member of a Dutch forum yet.

May I ask what makes you rate the Dehler 34 higher than the equivalent Westerly?

 

[ditchcrawler]

I sailed with a friend on his Storm for some years to and around Brittany, Netherlands, Germany, south and east coast etc. He also took it to the Baltic from the east coast.
It was a solid and dependable boat in all weathers and had plenty of storage and we always felt safe in all conditions.
Another friend had a Dehler 34, not the 31 that you are considering. He always felt that it was a very frisky boat and needed 100% attention when on the helm not to say that it was unseaworthy at all. My understanding from Dehler owners that I have met is that they are more performance orientated than the Westerlys having lighter
ballast ratios.
The internal finishing of the Storm is more traditional and the Dehlers I have been on (not sailed by the way just for drinks etc) are lighter internally.

 

[lw395]

Neither of these boats are outstandingly good or bad designs in my view.
We are talking about boats which are a fair age, so really, it's going to be more about the condition of the individual boats on offer as much as taste regarding their differences in style.
But generally, the longer boat is faster, more seaworthy and has more space inside. The downside is that some things you need to buy may cost significantly more. but it's only 2ft..?

 

[Tranona]

Good point, will check that out. I am just not a member of a Dutch forum yet.

May I ask what makes you rate the Dehler 34 higher than the equivalent Westerly?

It is difficult to make direct comparisons as the two boats were aimed at different markets. Either would be suitable for your intended use, just that they perform differently and the style of finish down below is diferent.

However, as others have noted there is more to buying a boat for long term use than just comparing two different boats. Essentially almost any cruising boat of that size will be suitable and there is a wide range to choose from. To differentiate you need to understand a bit about basic design features that have an effect on how they perform and what this might mean in terms of the way you sail and the comfort you expect.

With your sort of budget you are looking at boats 30+ years old and the key thing to look for is condition and level of equipment. For example buying a boat for long term use having a 2002 is perhaps not a good idea as not only is it not a particularly good engine, but will almost certainly need replacing within your ownership. Look for a boat that has already had this done and therefore has a newish modern engine. Similarly with rig and sails and possibly electronics. The cost of replacing or updating these is out of proportion to the buying price, so best to look for a boat that does not need this type of exenditure.

 

[youen]

I have owned à Storm during 7 years she was à very well built and seaworthy boat with à lot of room for storage,the helm was à bit heavy.She was much bigger than à Dehler 34..But as Tranona says you need to find à good one with récents sails engine and so on.if not you will have to add 15000 to 20000 £ to the asking price.Good luck

 

[lpdsn]

I've raced on a Dehler 31. It could definitely handly reasonably strong weather and had a very sea-kindly form, so you felt pretty comfortable for a boat of that size. She could also handle flying the spinnaker up to F6. It would've needed a stronger crew to do more than that. I'd be as confident on her in a blow as on a Sigma 33.

The layout down below is quite well arranged, and is much better than the Sigma (by not having the walk through heads).

As for build quiality you just need to look at the usual YouTube crash test video.

I know the OP says no racing, but she is quite slick. Can catch a Sigma 33 (although obviously these things depend a lot on crew rather than boat). Also very favourably rated by IRC.

PS: The Dehler has the America's Cup style of upside down keel, so bear that in mind when looking at ballast figures. Was always an anomaly that VdS used it on a cruising boat whilst he was on the committee that banned it for IOR racing.

 

[AJ_01]

PS: The Dehler has the America's Cup style of upside down keel, so bear that in mind when looking at ballast figures. Was always an anomaly that VdS used it on a cruising boat whilst he was on the committee that banned it for IOR racing.

Thanks, one more question: Why was it banned? I considered it to be the better keel option?!

 

[lpdsn]

Thanks, one more question: Why was it banned? I considered it to be the better keel option?!

I think when it was new it was just considered to give an unfair advantage. The ban only applied to IOR (long dead*). Modern handicap systems don't ban it.


*OK for the pedants (bound to be one) there are revival quarter, half-tonner etc. competitions that use IOR level rating as well as IRC.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Not banning but I have noticed some IRC optimised designs have gone without the almost ubiquitous ballast bulb

 

[lpdsn]

Not banning but I have noticed some IRC optimised designs have gone without the almost ubiquitous ballast bulb

Complete change of subject and maybe better for the racing forum, but.... In general, IRC tries to favour well-ballasted boats but at times has been considered by some/many/those-I-was-talking-to to over-rate bulbs. One boat I race on has a large bulb and the owner complains he is penalised for it despite having to drag it through the water on the downwind legs. I thought it had improved a bit in recent years though.

Anyway, designers are able to put in trial certificates so presumably the designers of those boats got a handicap that they were happy with. Of course with IRC it is risky to experiment as they can tweak the formula each year to reduce loopholes that are found.

 

[Tomahawk]

Good point, will check that out. I am just not a member of a Dutch forum yet.

May I ask what makes you rate the Dehler 34 higher than the equivalent Westerly?

Silly question, It was my boat and I loved my boat.
I liked the cockpit layout, the cabin layout had a good nav station with galley opposite it. Heads next to the companion way. Easy to get to under way... The hull was very solid. over 1" grp in the foot under the keel. And it sailed very well.

 

[Quandary]

I bought a boat last year, I looked at the Dehler 31, Westerly Storm, Moody S31, Jeanneau and Beneteau(can't recall the designations), my racing days are over and what I wanted was a simple boat that would sail and motor reasonably and would not be difficult to maintain, (things like re-stepping mast and rerigging each spring were factors) I really wanted a fractional rig to have something to play with but finished buying a MH Moody S31 because the quality of fit out with moulded headlinings etc. meant that it carried its years much better. The Storm would have been a better cruising boat but all those I saw though cheaper were something of an ongoing project and I am too old for that. I was really tempted by a Dehler 31 in Troon but my wife persuaded me to act my age and buy something a bit more staid.
So my conclusion after the exercise- Moodys are better than Westerlies, Dehlers are livlier than Moodys and French boats seem to have durability problems internally.

 

[brainstorm]

Needless to say I would favour the Storm having had my boat since new in 1992. I have no regrets at all. At the time of purchase I did consider a Moody 31 but felt the Storm was a sturdier boat and the internal finish and woodwork superior to the Moody. Yes the headlining did droop but that has all been fixed now , and that job only needs doing once. I have a newish engine and new sails and I am sorry to hear that those on the market have not been maintained as well.

I did not consider a Dehler, I think they were available then but thought they were much lighter boats and they used to have some unusual sheeting arrangements. I can't quite remember what those were now. I doubt there are 140 D31's in the country which was the number of Storms built.

Good luck anyway and get yourself a boat ahead of the start of the season!

 

[AJ_01]

Thanks all for the "food for thought"! Will also have to discuss with the Missus. She does have an even closer eye on the budget to be spent than I do. Combined with her "minimum requirements" the problem to be solved comes close to squaring the cirlce . ... ok, I am exaggerating to be honest, but I guess some of you will know what I'm saying

Good luck anyway and get yourself a boat ahead of the start of the season!

That's the idea .

 

[lpdsn]

So my conclusion after the exercise- Moodys are better than Westerlies, Dehlers are livlier than Moodys and French boats seem to have durability problems internally.

I'm surprised you thought the Dehler would be difficult to control. Did you get a trial sail? She is a fast cruiser just looking at her and the figures but she's well balanced too. I tried to get one to round up by oversheeting the main - as a demonstration to a new main trimmer they were training up - and I seriously couldn't.

I suspect if the OP could blag a sail on one he'd be hooked.

 

[Quandary]

I did not exactly say more difficult to control, perhaps requiring more work or action would be a better way of putting it, I was tempted though.
My wife persuaded me to sell our Finngulf 33 because she reckoned we were too old for it, I was working at the top of the 15m mast and she was on the winch that got me up there at the time. One of my criteria when I came back was to escape from the job of stepping and tuning a baltic height keel stepped mast with discontinuous rigging. We bought a motor boat but it was no fun, she agreed on that and after a season she allowed me to look at a wee saily boat again.
She goes sailing because she knows I want her to come with me but I know that she does not like seeing the boom near the water. Storms are longer in the tooth and the wee Moody I bought was immaculate.
I have been surprised how well the Moody S31 sails, it is probably less than a knot slower than the Finngulf averaged over a long passage, I brought it over from Bangor to Ardrishaig single handed in 14 hours and after owning it for a year I am quite reassured by how well it was designed and put together, and it is nice to get back to a tiller after 20 years.

 

[lpdsn]

I did not exactly say more difficult to control, perhaps requiring more work or action would be a better way of putting it, I was tempted though.
My wife persuaded me to sell our Finngulf 33 ....

Fair enough.

Shame about the Finngulf 33.

 

[richarddaltry]

I have a Dehler 34 and it's a lovely boat. When we bought her 3 years ago also looked at other cruiser racers of the late 80s era and couldn't find anything we preferred. A few reasons, many of which are the same for the 31. Reputation for zero osmosis (definitely a positive at this age and I think it might help them hold their value a bit), not very objective but prettier to my eyes, self tacking jib for family sailing, speed and sailing feel. She is superb to helm, very responsive and is quick. Always tricky to tell but not much of the same age and style will be faster. She is not however the sort of boat you can let go of the wheel/tiller and expect to keep sailing where you want her to. I'm not sure if the 31 is the same but the 34 has some IOR flat sections forward so can slam a bit if not heeled into a steep chop.

Didn't get to see a Storm but did have looked at a Fulmar. The Westerlies do seem quite a bit more spacious and are probably more comfortable both in space and motion. However, the Dehler will take you wherever you want to go as well and is similarly strong. She has an encapsulated galvanized steel frame to which the Keel is bolted and Dehler's GRP laminating (design and execution) was supposedly well ahead of most competitors at the time. Note also the heavier doesn't necessarily mean safer or less likely to break (loads are higher, scantlings have to be heavier, boat also gets slower) but is generally more comfortable. Not sure about the Dehler 31 but the 34 was definitely performance oriented when new. The 34 hull is based on a winning IOR boat and the manual that I found in the boats paperwork suggests you can carry the spinnaker in 40knots true downwind with the boat doing 15 and apparent at only(!) 25. Needless to say, I have not attempted this!

Anyway, as earlier poster pointed out. Don't spend forever debating it and go for what feels right and ideally has been looked after and go sailing this season.

 

[Concerto]

Interesting that the Dehler 34 will not hold a course without a touch on the helm. My late parents Dehler 37 was not as sensitive, but she was a cruiser but was still very responsive. My Fulmar is also quite good and in moderate conditions will hold a course for about half a minute, so useful to adjust something as I singlehand virtually all the time.