Westerly Storm vs. Dehler31 - any opinions?

[AJ_01]

Hi all!

We are currently in the market for a yacht and therefore in need of advise from the experts - hopefully to be found here .

We are looking for a cruiser rather than a racer - yet she does not need to be "slow". I enjoy fast passage making. But we are not into club racing and the like. Furthermore, we would like her to last for "a while" suiting our travel plans for the next couple of years (10-20?). Namely, we would like to explore the Channel, maybe head to Scotland, Ireland and in (hopefully not too distant) future even Norway, Baltic,... depending on time and budget of course. We are not planning on a circumnavigation though .

Having screened the market a bit I somehow came across Dehler31s and Westerly Storms. I had a look at two Dehler31s (e.g. 1991-1992, Yanmar 2gm20, almost new boom, almost new running rigging, self-tailing winches,...) and they seemed very well taken care of (only one previous owner, dry and clean bilges,...). Obviously the Dehlers do have a great reputation for quality and performance. But I am wondering whether the Dehler31 will be capable of taking us safely where we want to go.

On the other hand, I found some Westerly Storms (e.g. ~1987, VP2002 engine, no self-tailing winches, unknown number of previous owners,...) which looked somehow good as well (online) and especially my SWMBO likes the plus of living space below - being wider and 2 ft longer, far more storage space. Plus, from what I have researched so far, the Westlery should be taking caring of us, basicly wherever we want to go. But, from what I've heard they might be prone to osmosis and (only assessed from the advertisements so far) seem to need some more TLC and upgrades to shine.

How would you compare those two boats (given they are offered for about the same asking price) with regards to our sailing ambitions and quality, value-for-money?

Your views and experiences are very highly welcome!

Best regards,
Joe

 

[Champagne Murphy]

You could try the Westerly owners association
https://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/
The answers will have an element of bias but then so might the views from a Dehler association. Westerly produced vast numbers of boats and one seldom hears of them sinking so they must have had some considerable skill in manufacture.

 

[AJ_01]

You could try the Westerly owners association
https://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/
The answers will have an element of bias but then so might the views from a Dehler association. Westerly produced vast numbers of boats and one seldom hears of them sinking so they must have had some considerable skill in manufacture.

I agree from my research - I am just wondering what direction to head. Just from "desk research" I am getting the feeling, that the Westerly as more of a go-anywhere boat than the Dehler.

Rethinking my initial post, I think I can boil down my "dilemma" to two basic questions:
1) is the Dehler31 as much a go-anywhere boat as the Westerly is?
2) what is the best value for money, given the above sketched varying overall conditions of the yachts?

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Any specific examples to cite? I’ve always liked the look of a well sorted Storm, in fact it would be my ideal if we didn’t have the Sadler

 

[roblpm]

I don't have any direct experience bit spend my entire life wondering about the next boat! I think if you aren't going to race at all you will be happier with a heavier cruiser as if you buy a lighter boat you will always wonder if you should have bought the heavier one. Those of us who race a bit have to compromise more I think.

Dehler 31 3200kg 220 disp/length
Storm 33 5130kg 256 disp/length

So storm is a lot more boat!

How about a later Westerly Ocean which was the replacement of the storm I think. I love the corian worktops!!

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/Westerly-Ocean-33-2971741/United-Kingdom#.WmXk2XOnzqA

 

[ashtead]

I have heard of Storms which seem to be owned by bearded ex naval chaps with many more sea miles than me so if you are in the south you might wandered down and visit Hornet club at Gosport one evening -I'm sure you will soon find many who know a lot about them there but based on info in post 5 it would seem you would have a more comfortable time in a Storm from a number of angles if you can find a well loved version - You might also drop by Trafalgar Yacht sales who may tell you more on your way down to Gosport.

 

[pvb]

Having screened the market a bit I somehow came across Dehler31s and Westerly Storms. I had a look at two Dehler31s (e.g. 1991-1992, Yanmar 2gm20, almost new boom, almost new running rigging, self-tailing winches,...) and they seemed very well taken care of (only one previous owner, dry and clean bilges,...). Obviously the Dehlers do have a great reputation for quality and performance. But I am wondering whether the Dehler31 will be capable of taking us safely where we want to go.

Have you seen the Dehler crash test video?

 

[Skylark]

Dehler 31 3200kg 220 disp/length
Storm 33 5130kg 256 disp/length

If these figures are correct, and I have no reason to doubt them, then it’s pretty clear that they are two very different boats, hence not really comparable.

With so many boat in that size range available I would broaden the scope.

I watched some of the Dehler crash test video and it looked like a big dinghy from the footage.

If Joe, the OP plans to keep it for 5 to 10 years and sail across the Channel, to Scotland and potentially to the Baltic, I’d suggest looking at other boats before making a decision.

“The search” to buy a new boat is part of the fun. I’ve owned 3 boats but looked at many more. For the 3 I bought, I made the decision to buy within a few minutes of stepping aboard (including buying a new one). Everything felt right. There was always something niggling about the others so I walked away.

 

[richardbrennan]

The Ocean 33 was actually the replacement for the Fulmar, the GK33 was the replacement for the Storm although they only built a very few before going bust. The O33 is a faster boat than the Storm with a WOA Handicap of 952 compared with the Storm's 1000. Incidentally the GK33 has a WOA Handicap of 932 and the Fulmar is 1006. It may be worth you looking at a Fulmar, the main difference to the Storm being that most do not have a seperate aft cabin, but are a delight to sail and many consider them the best boat Westerly ever built. Like all secondhand Westerlies, make sure you know when the headlining was last replace, as this is quite an expensive exercise if done professionally. And of course like all other secondhand boats the age of the engine, sails, and rigging need consideration when agreeing a price. I am not sure where you are based, but your welcome to look at my O33 in Haslar Marina, but it's not for sale. There is also a cruiser version of the Storm, which was originally envisaged as a one design racing boat, these have a cut down rig. Do look at the WOA website, it's usually where you get the best well loved examples.

 

[{151760}]

I can't comment on the Dehler. but we've owned a Storm for four years now and are very pleased with it. We have ventured as far as Roscoff so far. We have no doubt about the boat's ability to take us further. The previous owner sailed to Spain.
It is a good performer by 80s standards, but modern lightweight flyers are faster.
Storms have a tendency to weather helm; we had a 100% jib made which we use most of the time, instead of the huge Genoa. We reef the mainsail in a Force 4 plus. (Yes, we are confirmed cruisers.).
With well-balanced sails, Storms are very light on the helm (ours has a steering wheel conversion), I often hand-steer for hours, as I enjoy it. The Wheel Pilot copes in light winds, if you want an autopilot for stronger winds you would need to look at an under-deck linear drive or hydraulic one.
We often average more than six knots on a full day's sail with a Force 3 or more wind. We generally chug along at five knots and 2000 rpm under the original Volvo Penta 2002. Fuel consumption is between 1.5 and 2 litres per hour.
The aft cabin is a great single cabin or shed, but the part under the cockpit is too low for it to be a true double berth.
The bilges are very shallow, so storage space is less than on some similar-sized boats. Having said that we very happily spend two to three months aboard every summer without feeling cramped or uncomfortable.
Manoeuvrability under power is ok. The prop is left-handed, so the stern kicks to starboard in reverse.
Hope this helps.

 

[AJ_01]

Hope this helps.

Definitely - thanks a lot! Have you had to deal with Osmosis already? If yes, what route did you go: local fixing or full treatment? How is your experience with the reliability of the VP2002?

And of course: thanks for all the other comments as well . Feel free to go on!

 

[Concerto]

Plus, from what I have researched so far, the Westlery should be taking caring of us, basicly wherever we want to go. But, from what I've heard they might be prone to osmosis and (only assessed from the advertisements so far) seem to need some more TLC and upgrades to shine.

Joe

Many people mistake air bubbles in the Westerly gel coat for osmosis, but it is from poor brushing out of the gel coat leaving very small holes. That was my concern when I bought my Fulmar, but my surveyor put me right.

Many years ago I very nearly bought the first Dehler 31 that would have entered the UK. My parents at the time were collecting a Dehler 37 (cruising yacht) from the Dutch yard. So I have experience with Dehler and Westerly. Dehler 31 are more mass manufacture with lots of clever plastic extras and covers. The van de Stat design will sail nicely and almost comparable to the Storm. The Westerly Storm will be stronger with fully bonded bulkheads and deck. With greater weight the Storm would be a more comfortable ride in rough weather.

As has been mentioned there are plenty of other choices in this size range, but they do depend on your budget and condition. I can recommend the Fulmar for its beautifully balanced handling, along with an easy to handle ¾ rig. Other choices could include the Westerly Typhoon, Moody 31, Dehler 34, etc.

All boats of this size range should be able to handle the type of sailing you are thinking of. I did 1000 miles singlehanded in 3 weeks this year in my Fulmar and will do a similar trip this year. My aim in a few years time is to singlehand round Britain in probably 8 to 10 weeks.

Follow the maxim of find the right class of boat for your budget, and choose the best maintained and equipped one on the market. Remember there will be improvements you will want to make it your own, so allow plenty of cash for this.

 

[alteredoutlook]

There are hundreds of boat designs in your category.

I would look at sigma 362's or my favourite a sigma 35.

 

[AJ_01]

Thanks all!

The sigmas look great as well, as does the Moody and the like. Unfortunately they don't fit my budget - especially if you consider concerto's good point, that potential improvements need some further cash as well.

I am rather looking for asking prices of around 22-23k GBP.

 

[Laysula]

A bit over your budget but, We looked for a Westerly Storm for a couple of years but everyone we looked at seemed to be tired or neglected. On a trip to Dartmouth to see a Westerly Riviera, Slightly different but it looked in fair condition, the broker suggested that we also looked at a Bavaria 350 that she had on the books saying it looked a lot more suitable for us.
Bottom line, it was. Ticked all the boxes, same as your boxes, Good solid boat, fair turn of speed equipped from new with high quality kit, selden furling system,self tailing winches etc. four years on we are still over the moon with her.

 

[gertha]

In 1975 my father bought a 26 ft westerly, sold it 5 years later, gave up sailing, this my first introduction to costal sailing.
In 1995 I bought a Dehler 25; this gave me a whole different angle on sailing.
I cannot compare a Storm to a Dehler 31; but I can compare a mid 70 s Westerly to a mid 80 s Dehler, if you like sailing and enjoy the sail the Dehler wins hands down.
The Westerly has always had a very British following, the rest of the world is not so convinced by the perceived build quality, this very much a generalisation. In an international market I suspect the Dehler is perceived as better.
Personally I would try and squeeze to 34 ft, i know the cost will be more, however the more length you can buy the better your ability to ride a bad sea.
Whatever you buy it will be good, do not get too tied up into trying to find the ultimate on first purchase, most of us buy 3 before we get it right.
Try and buy local, there you can get the knowlage of ownership and history, all this inter web stuff makes us forget the value of local knowlage, this especially important on a first purchase.
Simon

 

[ashtead]

There would appear to some 7 Storms for sale I could find with a number in the south but all in excess of the suggested asking price however some are close so plenty to view . As mentioned a number of alternates including the early Bav350 which I believe are well regarded if in budget. I imagine choice might be driven by listing new features in a boat of this age e.g. Rigging , engine ,sails . Other factors might be your chosen location and proposed berthing arrangements plus any other upgrades but plenty out there to compare with any Dehlers around. You dont say what budget you have for repairs etc but presume you have some margin as well.

 

[mhouse]

I Had my Dehler 31 Nova top 1.5 m keel for 15 years and loved it.
We cruised form the channel islands to north holland and did a few races.
The boat is bullet proof but need reefing early. Its very quick off wind but makes a bit of leeway if pushed to windward.
At anchor I found it tended to sail around the anchor and the slightest ripple gave tremendos transom slap.
The ABs interior moulding will probably now be showing stress cracks around some of the bends.

Good luck in your hunt.

 

[Concerto]

I cannot compare a Storm to a Dehler 31; but I can compare a mid 70 s Westerly to a mid 80 s Dehler, if you like sailing and enjoy the sail the Dehler wins hands down.

The Westerly has always had a very British following, the rest of the world is not so convinced by the perceived build quality, this very much a generalisation. In an international market I suspect the Dehler is perceived as better.

Whatever you buy it will be good, do not get too tied up into trying to find the ultimate on first purchase, most of us buy 3 before we get it right.

Try and buy local, there you can get the knowlage of ownership and history, all this inter web stuff makes us forget the value of local knowlage, this especially important on a first purchase.
Simon

You cannot make a comparison between a mid 70's Westerly and the Dehler 31. The Storm was started to be built in 1986 and by a completely different designer, so your comments are irrelevant. See my earlier post for a balanced comment.

Build quality is very much an opinion. Having owned a French built boat and a Westerly Fulmar of similar build years, the Westerly was far better built and stronger. Westerly's were built for British conditions and are slightly more traditional in design and rig than European builders of that time. This build quality was more expensive and in the early 1980's the exchange was also very adverse making exporting almost impossible.

Your two final comments, I agree with completely.

 

[{151760}]

Definitely - thanks a lot! Have you had to deal with Osmosis already? If yes, what route did you go: local fixing or full treatment? How is your experience with the reliability of the VP2002?

And of course: thanks for all the other comments as well . Feel free to go on!

Ours was treated for Osmosis before we bought it. Below the waterline was epoxy coated.
We had a top-end overhaul on the motor when we bought the boat. It has a replacement starter motor, and last winter a new alternator. It's been completely reliable for four seasons now. I have an engine logbook from a previous owner which goes back ten years before we owned it, there don't appear to have been many problems at all. It does smoke a little on start-up, and during last season it used almost a litre of oil in 50 hours.