Westerly Centaur - Any suggestions

[Baggywrinkle]

I can attest that when I got my first boat, a Vega, I had to work fairly hard to not be embarrassed by a Centaur which was being helmed by a much more experienced skipper.

Our summer holidays were in company with a Cantaur up the West Coast of Scotland in the late 70s,early 80s. my dads boat was a Vega (I was around 8 or 9 at the time)... can't say I remember ever leaving them conclusively in our wake. Under engine the roles were reversed.

@KentishPirate

Looks like a sorted boat, the keels have been done, engine looks good, boat looks really tidy apart from the headlining.

The roller furling needs to be tried on a test sail before commiting, and get an estimate for the headlining to use as a bargaining tool. Also check the state of the sails .. another bargaining point.

If everything checks out on the survey, then IMO looks like a great little boat and a lower offer than asking is perfectly normal.

Don't underestimate the value of a well looked after boat, a bill of 2K can come from anywhere at any time .... BOAT does stand for Break Out Another Thousand for good reason.

 

[Sea Change]

Our summer holidays were in company with a Cantaur up the West Coast of Scotland in the late 70s,early 80s. my dads boat was a Vega (I was around 8 or 9 at the time)... can't say I remember ever leaving them conclusively in our wake. Under engine the roles were reversed.

@KentishPirate

Looks like a sorted boat, the keels have been done, engine looks good, boat looks really tidy apart from the headlining.

The roller furling needs to be tried on a test sail before commiting, and get an estimate for the headlining to use as a bargaining tool. Also check the state of the sails .. another bargaining point.

If everything checks out on the survey, then IMO looks like a great little boat and a lower offer than asking is perfectly normal.

Don't underestimate the value of a well looked after boat, a bill of 2K can come from anywhere at any time .... BOAT does stand for Break Out Another Thousand for good reason.

If the OP needs to be persuaded, then add up the cost of the engine and standing rig... easily more than the asking price of the boat.

 

[Davy_S]

We used to sail from skipool creek to the IOM in company with a centaur, we had the Vega, cant say the centaur ever beat us, we had the old combi drive with a feathering prop, the centaur seemed pretty roomy inside and always felt safe, if i were the OP i would buy it, if only for the newish engine, plus it seems to have been looked after, i am sure he will enjoy it.

 

[doug748]

Old PN handicaps - Westerly Centaur 1231 - Hunter Horizon 1133 so Centaur might be 10 minutes behind on a 2 hour race
Vivacity 20 - 1305 - Another 7 minutes behind so not that far

Yes, they are fine club racers at their level, in a breeze you could win. Trumpeting about speed in sailing boats is a schoolboy affectation, they are all slow and those that do travel the fastest are often so compromised as to be pretty much useless for much else.

.

 

[fredrussell]

…Trumpeting about speed in sailing boats is a schoolboy affectation, they are all slow and those that do travel the fastest are often so compromised as to be pretty much useless for much else…

.

it’s a good point. Should the OP find himself trundling along at 5 knots on a sunny day in his new boat, I very much doubt he’ll be thinking “hmm, if only I could do 7”. Just being out there is the thing.

 

[Supertramp]

When you have been aboard a Centaur off Rattray Head, Duncansby Head or Cape Wrath in F5-7 you appreciate the design and construction. You may not get there fast but you will get there. The Centaur is the least rolly monohull downwind I've ever sailed. And when you arrive you have more space inside than many 26 footers.

Plenty of owner information on how to fix and modify things. As already said, a sound engine, rig and sails are a must. The old roller reefing booms were not great - slab is a much better bet. The very early Centaurs had the aft lowers attached above the middle of the cabin window. This caused a lot of flexing and window leaks, modified on later models. The lee rigging would rattle and go slack in fresh winds.

The one you are looking at is a later model - shroud attachs forward of the window.

 

[Pete J]

Theres a half decent Centaur in Torquay inner harbour for anyone who likes fettling . Ask the harbour office as it s arrested ! probably worth 2K or so . It s for sale at 5 k but no offers and they are keen to move it on . I am its neigbour so see it often , I would say until recently it had a good owner

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Good starter boat. Check the inmast works properly. Engine and standing rigging are the value items. Just don't park it next to a twister unless you want your head turned! Buy it and go sailing.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Good starter boat. Check the inmast works properly. Engine and standing rigging are the value items. Just don't park it next to a twister unless you want your head turned! Buy it and go sailing.

Agree re the twister. I’d add sails to the ‘value items’ list. In fact standing rigging is only expensive if you hire a rigger to do it all for you. It’s easy enough to measure and get it made to fit yourself. Hard to make your own sails. And probably that fact is part of my dislike to Centaurs. They are almost always flying the sort of old rags that would give a scarecrow a bad name. A decent shaped genny would improve those boats no end.

 

[Sea Change]

Agree re the twister. I’d add sails to the ‘value items’ list. In fact standing rigging is only expensive if you hire a rigger to do it all for you. It’s easy enough to measure and get it made to fit yourself. Hard to make your own sails. And probably that fact is part of my dislike to Centaurs. They are almost always flying the sort of old rags that would give a scarecrow a bad name. A decent shaped genny would improve those boats no end.

Our first boat, a Vega, had a horrible 150% genoa without luff padding. Within a few weeks of buying the boat we had bought a 125% with a padded luff. It was like sailing a different boat.
It's hard to justify spending the money on older, cheaper, boats, but it's really no fun pootling around with clapped out sails.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Our first boat, a Vega, had a horrible 150% genoa without luff padding. Within a few weeks of buying the boat we had bought a 125% with a padded luff. It was like sailing a different boat.
It's hard to justify spending the money on older, cheaper, boats, but it's really no fun pootling around with clapped out sails.

Liking that just once completely underestimates how much I agree. And yes, less is sometimes more. A 125% sail is going to lean you over less, point better, and reef better. Make up for the loss of area with a second hand cruising chute. In this case maybe a knackered asymmetric off a trendy dinghy.

 

[ashtead]

Centaurs were built in days of Hank on headsails so any roller headsail is an improvement although clearly less fun for the crew not to be bouncing around on foredeck trying to undo the jammed piston. Never seen a centaur with a self tacking headsail and a seldon bow spirit but it would be possible at a price

 

[Sea Change]

Liking that just once completely underestimates how much I agree. And yes, less is sometimes more. A 125% sail is going to lean you over less, point better, and reef better. Make up for the loss of area with a second hand cruising chute. In this case maybe a knackered asymmetric off a trendy dinghy.

Yes, in our case the previous owner had dispensed with the spinnaker and upsized the genoa to compensate. We picked up a secondhand spinnaker from a Stella, and got the boat back to the way it was supposed to be set up. A big improvement.

 

[Tranona]

In the 80s and 90s when roller furling became popular as retrofits it was quite common for the packages offered by sailmakers to include 150% genoas on the basis that it was better to have more sail area as you could reef it down easily. It was a mistake as I discovered with my Eventide. First it led to increased weather helm, second it made tacking difficult and third after 2 or 3 rolls the sail shape as poor - even though the boat generally went better. I had the same issue when I bought the GH - essentially the same rig as it came with a large overlapping headsail that I don't think was made for the boat. Now I have a 100% working jib and the genoa is on an outer stay to the end of the bowsprit and only used offwind. The improvement with the jib is immediately obvious - points better easier to tack and does not need reefing until over 20 knots

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We don’t mind reefing much earlier, but are very particular that we still have a good sail shape. And if the boat is a cranky old bilge keeler, you really don’t need to handicap your windward ability in any other way. At least we all agree that a good quality sensibly sized jib is best for that.

 

[potentillaCO32]

I am perverse in preferring hank on sails. A throwback to racing sonatas. Also a throwback to me pulling the furling line out of my furlex when single handed in an f8 off ramsgate with the autopilot on the blink.
Slightly perverse but heigh ho.

 

[sigma38dave]

I'm going to look at this boat on Monday....

It's Tuesday...what happened, buyers desire or not? As good in the flesh as the photos?

 

[Mark-1]

headlining replaced don’t underestimate cost of the exercise if done well -

Most people don't do it well, though, they just rip the upholstery off and varnish the headlining plywood backing. Which is adequate AFAIC.

 

[KentishPirate]

It's Tuesday...what happened, buyers desire or not? As good in the flesh as the photos?

Evening,

So yes, I went yesterday. The documents were all there, back to the beginning Lloyds certificate and VAT paid, and there was a pretty much complete series of bills of sale.
It was antifouled this time last year, hasn't been out/antifouled/anode checked this season/since.
The engine was new when fitted, he had a receipt for it, they got quite a decent discount for it (was £5.5k they got it for £4kish). He had docs and receipts for most things on the boat. The engine seemed very well looked after, it was cold, started nicely and the oil was practically transparent, I'm used to it being sludge brown so I was a bit surprised. Fuel tank is painted steel, the water tank was stainless steel. The upholstery was fine, seemed in good nick to me. He hadn't done it, he said it was original but ... it seemed pretty clean to be 40 years old to me.
The boat didn't smell at all, no funny smells. The only private boats I've been on before one had a sort of damp-ish smell and the other wreaked of varnish, so it was noticeable.
He'd replaced the bulging starter battery, but only recently. He said it had needed doing, it was the one mentioned in the 2018 survey, it just didn't have much oomph and he wanted the engine to start beautifully for prospective buyers. He definitely made the engine the centre-piece. The Victron charger and the shunt were good, I'd seen them in youtube videos before, replaces all the voltmeters and stuff which I thought was good.

The diesel heater had been removed, but he was a welder so he'd made an aluminium 45 degree bracket in the port quarter of the stern locker. That was impressive. He'd already warned me about it being gone, it wasn't supposed to be in the ad he said. And the Garmin chartplotter (£800 he says) which wasn't listed (just an empty bracket) so I got the impression it was just extracting all the good, decent bit of kit for his new boat, a Konsort. In the listing he said the gas hob was included but not fitted, but I didn't see it on the boat just the Origo. I just got the impression a lot of the valuable gear was being taken, as much as possible, to squeeze that £7.7k out. Fair play, I guess, but don't put it in the original ad.

The inmast furling was an add-on as well, or so he said, it was just a gold-anodised track that was rivetted onto the back of the mast.

All said and done, I did like the boat. I was being so nosy and asking questions so we spent about two hours, I forgot to ask and he didn't mention going out. I didn't get to see the roller furling jib.
The design and proportions is what I'm looking for. 26ft would do me fine. Not too big for me, not too small. It was well-looked after. I just think, especially with some of the stuff missing and the headlining, it's really squeezing it at £7.7k, he did make a Freudian slip "I'm not willing to budge on the price but I thought 7..... 7 and a half was fitting for the work that's been done", but then at the end he made a point that ... he didn't really want an offer, but then he said "unless it doesn't sell". So he was a bit wishy washy it was hard to read him. especially considering he didn't put the engine in... and he paid £8k for the boat originally in 2023, incidentally. Just the personal work, and the rigging and new mainsail.

He said I was the first to view it, but then made sure to tell me he'd had four people call and one person viewing on Wednesday. A previous commenter said £4-5k, I think £4k would be a steal. It's maybe ... 6.5k fair price? Hard for me to say. I'm going to leave it and think about it, if there is someone on Wednesday that takes it straight away so be it but I think I'll give it a few days, have a hard think and make a bid at the weekend but I'm not paying £7.8k for it, with the survey and lift out he's getting too good a deal. He didn't transfer it into his name on the SSR from the previous owner, though he had a bill of sale, and said it was to do with him not being good with computers and left school illiterate, but he's very good with electronics and telemetry so ... yeh, he said it was expensive (£35?), and he was quick to mention he needed £30k to do up his new boat. I dunno, he seemed a bit miserly which is fine but it grated on me, if it were me I'd maybe think it but not say it. Incidentally his berth was £250 a month, and his new boat was on the most expensive pontoon A (again, what are you telling me for? xD)

Oh, and p.s. the outside of the boat and the deck was very clean, almost immaculate. All the bottlescrews, stanchions, guardrails etc was gleaming, the rustiest thing on the boat was the Danforth and the anchor chain. But I can't fault the outside condition or the paintwork etc. And I checked the whole deck for sponginess, it was solid as a rock.

And to answer your question, I'd say as good in the flesh if not better, but it was a glorious sunny day in Southampton yesterday! and buyer desire... I don't know, the boat is nice, it's just whether it's worth the amount he's asking for I don't like the feeling of being had over.

 

[ridgy]

Thee are currently 24 centaurs for sale on Apollo duck.
https://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/boats/westerly/centaur

Many with newish engines and a couple being given away. This is pretty much the most expensive one on the market. Absolutely nobody is queueing up to pay the asking price on this especially with that main which is a big negative on a boat this size.