Weaning myself away from full long keels

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BurnitBlue

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I need help. I have always been a full keel sailor. Never owned a fin keel boat.

For the last two or three years I have been trying to upgrade to 30 to 35 foot long keel but I have come to the reluctant conclusion that it is no longer possible without a good deal of pure luck.

The long keel boats that I have found for sale, and viewed, have been few and far between, limiting choice to a very few examples. And those few have been old and dark and nearly always with a major problem; osmosis, old sails, engine gasping etc.

I don't intend to spend the rest of my life in a fruitless search so I have decided to look at fin keel boats for sale.

The trouble is that I have realised that I know nothing about them except that the keel can fall off, the bolts need replacing at intervals, they do not track well, they need strengthening around the bilge the keels rust away, the join between hull and keel can open up or get squashed. Gee whiz, after writing that lot down I may keep looking for long keel. Just joking.

I have only £40,000 cash to use because I will not enter into debt. This means an older boat whichever keel I choose. I am much taken with the Sparkman and Stevens 34 footer but naturally there are none for sale I can get at.

Thanks for your patience and now my main question. What boats similar to a S&S 34 (deep body 30 to 35 foot) fifteen years old or so, are out there?

Thanks
 
How about an encapsulated long fin and skeg? No keel bolts to worry about rudder protected by a skeg. Will still track well and likely to be easier to tack and (a bit) easier to reverse than a full long keel.

Try Rivals (not that I'm biased of course:))
 
I agree; next stop after full keel is an encapsulated fin and skeg.
You get the joy of encapsulated ballast and protection for the rudder combined with a bit better performance under sail and better handling under power.
 
Exactly what I was going to say - a long encapsulated fin with full skeg will behave pretty similarly to a full keel with cutaway forefoot. I have a Rival and often describe it to people as long keel since that gives them a good idea of the handling characteristics.

I can let go of the helm to trim sails and she will track happily, and can be dried out against a wall although I have yet to try this. Steering in reverse is as much a matter of luck as anything, although I don't know whether or not you are used to worse!

Contessas use a very similar configuration, as do some of the Nicholsons plus I'm sure many others. Not sure about a 15 year old boat as this plan would have been considered rather conservative then, but there should be plenty of 70's and 80s to look at and as there are more out there you can pick and chose the good ones.

Good luck!
 
BlueTwo said:
The trouble is that I have realised that I know nothing about them except that the keel can fall off, the bolts need replacing at intervals, they do not track well, they need strengthening around the bilge the keels rust away, the join between hull and keel can open up or get squashed. Gee whiz, after writing that lot down I may keep looking for long keel. Just joking.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Little of this is true. There are examples of these things happening but they are easilyt spotted.

With your budget and size you have a vast choice of boats. You could draw up a short list of 40 or 50 fin and skeg boats from the 70's to early 90's and I would suggest you need to be much more specific about what you are looking for rather than just worry about the keel type.

However, you will still be faced wuth the fact that these are old boats and will vary enormously in condition. You may consider going for the "newer" designs such as the Westerly Fulmar or Sadler 34 as they have had less time to wear out!

Good luck with your search.
 
BlueTwo said:
Thanks for your patience and now my main question. What boats similar to a S&S 34 (deep body 30 to 35 foot) fifteen years old or so, are out there?
Click to expand...
I know this forum well enough to feel confident that very soon someone will post saying "shame you cannot afford a Starlight 35".

S&S 34, nice design there is one right by me in the marina, although the stern is pinched a bit too much for optimal all round handling. Are you looking to buy within the UK and/or north Europe?

The best matches I can find are a 1980 She 36 for £45k and a 1989 Sigma 36.2 for the same price. What about a Nich 35 for £30k + £10k refit?
 
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Thanks for the answers so far. Yes I agree that an encapsulated long fin would serve very nicely. I am amazed though that the Rival range are encapsulated. I will look into them although if I recall the 31 32 and 34 are essentially the same boat with an extra "marina price loving" overhang. I will look at the 32 foot rival. I know about the Contessa 32 but for me an overpriced cult boat.

So, yes. I will spend the next few hours on yachtworld.com looking for encapsulated keel examples.

Thanks and please keep the suggestions coming because it is very difficult to get good info immediately from a broker without hours spent googling.
 
Join www.topsl.net, then you can spend a few seasons sailing an HR36, Southerly 110 and a Dufour 36.

Quite a range of designs there to sample life without a long keel and without a large capital investment. I think their HR36 is spending Winter 2010/11 in the Canaries prior to returning to the Solent base via the Azores.
 
jonjo5 said:
S&S 34, nice design there is one right by me in the marina, although the stern is pinched a bit too much for optimal all round handling. Are you looking to buy within the UK and/or north Europe?

The best matches I can find are a 1980 She 36 for £45 and a 1989 Sigma 36.2 for the same price. What about a Nich 35 for £30 + £10k refit?
Click to expand...

My preference is for the Mediterranean in Sterling asking price so I can make a cash transfer with no hassle. Secondly, the UK.

I have looked at boats in Sweden but the volatile exchange rate to SEK rules out a serious bid because I would have to eat a lot of exchange loss.

There are only two long keeled yachts in the Med right now in my price range, a Tradewind 33 and a Rustler 31, both with problems. So fin keel it has to be or I will be looking for ever.
 
A Nich 35 has been suggested and this is definitely on my list. There are two examples in the UK. One at Foxes in Essex which has a teak deck which advice on this forum is of the nature "run not walk away". The other is Kings Eastern Brokarage for an example in Scotland. This boat looks attractive on paper but it has been in and out of "sale pending" at least three times in the past year so there must be issues with her.

When I first started the search for a "new" boat it was exciting, but right now it is getting to be a bit of a chore and I am in danger of accepting anything just to end the search and get it over with. This is what made me ask the forum for help.

I must extend the search to fin keel but with experienced opinion to guide me.
 
BlueTwo said:
The trouble is that I have realised that I know nothing about them except that the keel can fall off, the bolts need replacing at intervals, they do not track well, they need strengthening around the bilge the keels rust away, the join between hull and keel can open up or get squashed. Gee whiz, after writing that lot down I may keep looking for long keel. Just joking.
Click to expand...

Do you really believe that tripe or is it intended as a troll? Surely no-one can really be that narrow minded.
 
jonjo5 said:
I know this forum well enough to feel confident that very soon someone will post saying "shame you cannot afford a Starlight 35".

S&S 34, nice design there is one right by me in the marina, although the stern is pinched a bit too much for optimal all round handling. Are you looking to buy within the UK and/or north Europe?

The best matches I can find are a 1980 She 36 for £45 and a 1989 Sigma 36.2 for the same price. What about a Nich 35 for £30 + £10k refit?
Click to expand...

Please go and buy the She 36 sight unseen for £45 on my behalf I will give you 1000% mark up no questions asked;):D:D

On a serious note the She 36 was a great boat spent a lot of time on the foredeck of one and in sound condition given a few £K to upgrade her would be a good buy.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Do you really believe that tripe or is it intended as a troll? Surely no-one can really be that narrow minded.
Click to expand...

All my info about fin keels is second hand usually from this forum. I have absolutely no first hand experience of fin keels.

I have owned five yachts in my life all long full keels.

In fact I am mostly a two boat man having also owned an International Folkboat for pottering around for the last 20 years.

It may be tripe to you, but for me it is received info and there are examples of every claim right here on this Forum.
 
BlueTwo said:
The trouble is that I have realised that I know nothing about them except that the keel can fall off, the bolts need replacing at intervals, they do not track well, they need strengthening around the bilge the keels rust away, the join between hull and keel can open up or get squashed. Gee whiz, after writing that lot down I may keep looking for long keel. Just joking.

I have only £40,000 cash to use because I will not enter into debt. This means an older boat whichever keel I choose. I am much taken with the Sparkman and Stevens 34 footer but naturally there are none for sale I can get at.

Thanks for your patience and now my main question. What boats similar to a S&S 34 (deep body 30 to 35 foot) fifteen years old or so, are out there?

Thanks
Click to expand...


Most fin keels manage to stay attached and don't seem to worry the bulk of people, even though they may not be ideal.
I would suggest a look at the Sadler 34 (or even 32). Agree that the Nich 35 would be ideal if you can uncover one.
You might struggle to be suited with a boat under 20 years of age.
Best of luck - keep us informed as to how you get on.
PS
I see I need not mention the Marieholm 32.
 
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Nich' 35 is definatly one of my dream boats. At £27K the one in Scotland looks a possibility.... all sorts of reasons may have stalled its sale in the past though. Selling a boat in Scotland can't be as easy as selling near the Solent.
Why not talk to the owner direct. He can't be that difficult to trace from the photos.
If it's a sound boat then £25K and spend £15K on her and you could have what you want.
 
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