We are in a never to be repeated golden age of sailing.

[Mark-1]

What we found is we could not get people to show up for racing in meaningful numbers in the summer, no matter what we did. We tried many different formats, from fun and casual to more serious, but the result was always tumbleweed.

Spring and Autumn series were well attended (and to some extent still are).

Our dinghy club is the same. Attendance in summer is patchy, the winter series attracts large fleets - comparable with our open meetings in turnout. TBH, I'm one of those people, I've done every dinghy race this winter which is more than I did all summer. Purely down to fewer conflicting commitments.

 

[flaming]

The change from cruiser racers to pure race boats has killed off almost all participants with cruiser racers. Then there is the expense of getting the boat measured and complying with all the safety equipment. This adds barriers for anyone thinking of doing the odd race, so nobody now bothers.

Whilst I agree with the prognosis of falling fleet numbers, I think you're way off here. I don't think the cruiser racer was killed off by the race boat, I think it was killed off by the AWB.

When you are looking for something to primarily cruise - and you have the budget for a new or nearly new cruiser racer - then it takes a very particular sort of person to decide not to have the comfort of an AWB and about half the cash in their back pocket, but instead pay more for less space. And you'll need to also forgo all the other things that have transformed cruising comfort.... No roller furling, no anchor on a bow roller, no sprayhood, no windlass... etc etc. Undoubtedly those people did exist, but in ever dwindling numbers, to the point where traditional cruiser racers simply weren't a money making proposition for their builders any more. And that happened about a decade ago now.

Add in that the "bang for buck" was off for cruiser racers. It was great when we had big fleets, but when numbers started declining the actual sailing wasn't exciting enough for the cash spent. Which is why a lot of the C/R owners migrated to sportsboats or day boats. Either more bang, or less buck. When I look at the fleet we race against now, the amount of cruising that's getting done is very minimal. We do a bit, but there's no way I'd own the boat I do if even 25% of my sailing was cruising.

The East Coast though, I grew up sailing there, and it is a pretty poor race venue. It's not really of much surprise that most people who can afford to, and have the desire to, run a reasonably sized race boat drive to the Solent instead. Indeed I'm writing this from my desk which is about half an hour from the Orwell. My boat is 3 hours away on the Hamble. And that is simply because both the sailing venue and the competition is so far ahead in the Solent compared to here on the East coast.
If there comes a point when I need to take a hiatus from racing, then I will undoubtedly swap the JPK for some sort of East Coast suitable cruiser and spend some time revisiting my old cruising grounds here, but as a racing venue? No thanks.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Boasting, the context of the post you were referring to is gauche. All the boat owners on YBW sail yachts, whether motor or wind powered. There may be the odd boat owner, who's boat is not a yacht, but they will be a rare beast on here.

I need to correct you. I don't sail my yacht. I sit in it wiring it, putting a floor in, fibreglassing, fitting a galley, putting an engine, changing through hulls, pouring too much money into it, drinking tea in it. But never yet sailing it.

 

[dunedin]

I need to correct you. I don't sail my yacht. I sit in it wiring it, putting a floor in, fibreglassing, fitting a galley, putting an engine, changing through hulls, pouring too much money into it, drinking tea in it. But never yet sailing it.

Should get a modern one with a bolt on keel, as we sail all year round with minimal maintenance


I’ll get my coat

 

[dunedin]

…….
The East Coast though, I grew up sailing there, and it is a pretty poor race venue. ….

Let us know when your burning as a heretic is scheduled for.

Of course, like all heretics, being correct is no defence, but rather it is aggravating your crime

 

[fredrussell]

Should get a modern one with a bolt on keel, as we sail all year round with minimal maintenance


I’ll get my coat

The “minimal maintenance” being reattaching the keel once in a while.

 

[baart]

It seems the golden age of sailing might be coming to an end for many. And in a hurry. A quick look at apolloduck shows an interesting number of boats for sale in the UK, that don't seem to be moving. We have 18 Moodys 346, 12 Fulmars, 14 Consorts, 13 Grifons, 8 Storms. 11 Bavarias 37, 6 Bav 36, 8 Bav 34, to name just a few from the popular brands. Not sure how many months it is going to take for those to find a new owner. On the other hand Red Ensign has a nearly new Contessa 32 for sale @£225k. This certainly feels like a golden age purchase

 

[seeSimon]

It’s horribly gauche to refer to your own boatcas a yacht, isn’t it? It’s a boat, unless it’s called ‘Britannia’. I don’t think even pretentious gits on the south coast would make that mistake.

Is "Yot" acceptable?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I need to correct you. I don't sail my yacht. I sit in it wiring it, putting a floor in, fibreglassing, fitting a galley, putting an engine, changing through hulls, pouring too much money into it, drinking tea in it. But never yet sailing it.

That kind of re defines your OP. The golden age of projects, perhaps. But from you, that’s a bombshell admission.

Is "Yot" acceptable?

Written, quite possibly. Spoken, no. Especially if wearing Nantucket reds at the time.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Is "Yot" acceptable?

Just about but yatch is better.

 

[barca nova]

I may have posted something like this before.

When I first started sailing in the mid/late 80s in my late teens i looked at the westerly centaur as the popular family cruising boat and good ones were about 10k then. Similar for something like a sadler 26. Family boats were smaller then.

According to google, or AI, or something 10k in 1986 equates to around 40k now.

Yet it is possible to buy a very good centaur or westerly griffon for 6 - 7k. I saw one advertised for sale today with a 2004 engine and clearly well looked after for 7k. With the current market you could probably offer 5k and the seller would bite your arm off.

This is pretty recent, a sort of very gradual decline in prices from 2010 until covid which triggered a boom when you could ask silly money for anything, followed by a baloon pop of real vengence. To the extent that boatyards are scrapping biats at a rate of knots that they have never done before.

So for sailors this is the golden age. I know people say that it is madness paying 5k per year for a berth on a boat not even worth that, but it means that it is possible to get on the water and have fun for less in real terms than I spent on an evening out in Browns in Shoreditch in the 90s.

It is possible to get a seaworthy, comfortable boat, that has been looked after that is capable of crossing the channel for next to nothing.

I see this as a golden age of sailing. Far more accessible than it has ever been before. I don't think people see it, in the same way that most people never see the bottom of a market as a buying opportunity.

If boatyards keep scrapping boats at the rate they are doing then in a few years there will be more of the decent ones left and the supply/demand balance will start to return to normal.

My message is to those looking to buy, buy now and enjoy the value. It won't last.

Totally disagree. Boats like the old westerlies and sadlers are old and tired. Doesnt matter how well looked after, hulls are very likely to have osmosis, winches will likely be old as will the m,asts and spars and electronics. Some will have been re-engined but how recently, or are they still on old Volvo 2000 series. They may appear cheap but thats because they arent worth much. At the other end of the spectrum you now haveBenJenBavs in 6 figures!!! Silly prices for the marine equivalent of a Ford Focus ( or whatever they call them these days). So its a dichotomy - you can have a tired old banger as cheap as chips or you can have a flimsy BenJenBav for half the average cost of a UK house.

 

[Supertramp]

Totally disagree. Boats like the old westerlies and sadlers are old and tired. Doesnt matter how well looked after, hulls are very likely to have osmosis, winches will likely be old as will the m,asts and spars and electronics. Some will have been re-engined but how recently, or are they still on old Volvo 2000 series. They may appear cheap but thats because they arent worth much. At the other end of the spectrum you now haveBenJenBavs in 6 figures!!! Silly prices for the marine equivalent of a Ford Focus ( or whatever they call them these days). So its a dichotomy - you can have a tired old banger as cheap as chips or you can have a flimsy BenJenBav for half the average cost of a UK house.

You make a good point and its true that a 40 to 50 year old boat can be less than perfect in so many ways. The gulf between them and current new boats is enormous, in design and cost terms. If you weed out from the adverts those boats that need a bit of something (expensive) then there are relatively few that have been well looked after (and usually priced accordingly). Plenty more in marinas and out cruising with happy owners. Look after it well, update it, and its not an old banger.

What seems very different is the running costs, especially if marina based. With that extra cost comes easier access allowing people to use their boats in a different way. Its a golden age for accessibility and comfort afloat.

In the same way that the skills to build and maintain wooden boats (locally) died out, I think the skill and will to maintain older plastic boats will decline.

One age replaced by another.

 

[justanothersailboat]

Complaining about the winches of old boats is a new low for this forum in finding imaginary faults. Tiny boats from the early seventies maybe with those tufnol jobs with the slot handle. But from the late 70s on and from boats above about 24 foot, the winches are really astonishingly similar to new ones. On a racer they may be knackered, but on the average cruiser they have little wear and fix up really easily and cheaply. And many new charter-cruisers seem to have relatively small winches in annoying positions to get them out of the way of the dinner party space. Actual problems exist, we don't need to add imaginary ones.

The advantage glass boats of certain generations have, is that the skills to maintain and renovate them are really easy to learn. I'm not convinced this will carry forward into the higher tech modern one where, for instance, glued in curved panoramic windows... or complex vacuum infused layups... are really reliable put in in the factory but not so easy to redo in a cold damp boatyard.

Given a boat budget of x the sensible answer is nearly always going to be to buy a humbler boat than max budget, so you can afford to put really good sails on it.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The buyers of manky old westerlys don’t give a flying one about their sails. In fact it seems a badge of honour to have the most knackered, baggy, useless bits of old tablecloth up there as possible.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The buyers of manky old westerlys don’t give a flying one about their sails. In fact it seems a badge of honour to have the most knackered, baggy, useless bits of old tablecloth up there as possible.

My thoughts which I had kept to myself were along the lines of silk purse and sows ear.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

My thoughts which I had kept to myself were along the lines of silk purse and sows ear.

That too. However, we should perhaps bear in mind I could probably buy 3 or 4 manky Centuars for the price of my jib. If I got 3, perhaps, with a few bits of 4x2 and some old rope from the back of the boatyard, I could build another trimaran.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

That too. However, we should perhaps bear in mind I could probably buy 3 or 4 manky Centuars for the price of my jib. If I got 3, perhaps, with a few bits of 4x2 and some old rope from the back of the boatyard, I could build another trimaran.

It would be a very slow trimaran.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

It would be a very slow trimaran.

6 keels would increase the wetted surface a bit.

 

[Concerto]

Barca nova has shown the extremes of the boat market with strong opinions to both. Not all 40 to 50 year old boats are old and tired. I know of plenty of owners who enjoy sailing and maintaining their boats. There are still plenty of poorly maintained boats of all ages. I have seen boats that are green with verdigris in expensive marinas. How can anyone just ignore an asset to that degree.

Imagine a 50 year old house that has not been maintenance in that time. Again I have seen houses like this, and yet someone lives in them. The real difference between old boats and old houses is about demand and supply. There is constant pressure in the housing market due to limitations on supply and financial restrictions outside the buyers control. People need somewhere to live, but may have very restricted choices, so are forced to buy older properties than they would like. By comparison over the last half century, boats in general have been getting bigger. So the mass market boats in the sub 30 foot size are plentiful with reduced demand as there is plenty of choice slightly larger for not a lot of money. Basically there are too many secondhand boats to the number of buyers. Add the factors of boats not being essential like a house, plus the expense of keeping a boat somewhere, either a mooring or marina. The demand for marina berths is high but demand for moorings is dropping. The convenience of walking down a pontoon to your boat is so much easier than getting a dinghy into the water, not to mention getting out of the dinghy and onto the boat.

In our society, boat ownership is a luxury and not possible for all. Even the cheapest boat on the cheapest mooring will still cost several thousands every year when many are struggling to make ends meet. Yet boat ownership is the aim for many, even though going sailing on someone else's boat is the cheapest option.

We are the lucky ones, we own our own boats, irrespective of age and design. They are our choice, and thankfully there is a wide choice from brand new ones right through to manky old ones. Everyone buys what they can afford and hopes to get a better one in the future. However there does seem to be a reduction in boat building due to increasing costs and large numbers are not entering the UK. Add in the impossibility of buying from abroad. I can foresee very few boats getting added to the existing stock in the UK. This added to the lack of demand for small old boats is the change coming to us all, boating participation is shrinking.

 

[sigma38dave]

Complaining about the winches of old boats is a new low for this forum in finding imaginary faults….

One of my mates is obsessed with the winches on our Sigma.

The lack of self tailing completely blows his mind and I’ve lost count of the amount of times he’s asked when I’m going to change them to the point he’s now programmed in my phone as ‘self tailing Steve’!