Warning from VisitMyHarbour about Marine Navigator
- Thread starter AntarcticPilot
- Start date
dunedin
Well-known member
Personally I would NOT do this and instead approach VMH to get your chart licences transferred to a safer app.
If what was posted in #10 a correct reflection of the developer’s statement, all sort of alarm bells should be ringing - as well as flashing red lights!
An app which tracks your location behind the scenes, yet the developer is not able/willing to add the user warning and consent process required by Google’s development standards - designed to safeguard your privacy. And not willing to retest to Android 10 standards. And now being invited to download directly, bypassing all the privacy and security safeguards of the Google PayStore.
This might not be a rogue app. But once downloaded directly you have no knowledge or control over what it is doing with your location info, or any other access it might make to the contents of your device. There could be any hidden payloads in that code, whether or not known to the developer.
A dangerous approach. Certainly wouldn’t allow this anywhere near a phone used for any other purpose.
Pye_End
Well-known member
Just re-booted mine in case this made it worse! Still does the same - ie. works fine when not connected on startup. Mine is Android13. Google play system update 1 Sept '23.
neil_s
Well-known member
No problem with my London Chartplotters set-up.
Whaup367
Active member
Personally, I trust Ronald Koenig (MN dev) & the VMH team (as well as Antares charts & Steve from London Chartplotters!) more than I trust Google.
I think the major difference here is not the risk associated with the application but the pricing model in place. Marine Navigator is a one-time purchase, as are the Antares & VMH editions of the UKHO charts. AAUI, Ronald tried to discuss the background logging and pointlessness of a second dialogue box to confirm tracking should be enabled (there is already an explicit requirement to enable tracking when the application is first started) but became frustrated with the way that Google app support treated the devs that populate their store. This isn't unusual, look at the way YouTube demonetises successful vloggers: it's the way they do business.
I have looked at Memory Map as a possible alternative and cannot work out how their charts are priced: their map store doesn't list prices; it seems you have to download them, create an account and ... ?? It's opaque.
This process makes me deeply suspicious about their pricing. Perhaps unfairly but if they have to hide it so carefully it wouldn't hurt to explain why.
dunedin
Well-known member
You may know and trust the developer - that is your call. But it still sounds shoddy that the developer won’t update for Android 10, which is 5 years old now, not add a warning dialogue about tracking. Doesn’t sound like a Google monetising matter at all, pure and simp,ple non adherence to App Store privacy and currency standards.
Regarding Memory Map pricing - Quick Google search gave this in 10 seconds UK & Ireland Marine Charts – Memory-Map Outdoor Navigation Apps | Ordnance Survey | Hema Maps
Plum
Well-known member
Thanks for that link. I have been looking at MM as an alternative to Marine Navigator app and I too have struggled to find chart prices. I emailed MM and they replied with link different to your one. Their link did not explain that there was a choice of High Definition (HD) charts, Quilted HD charts, or the standard charts so appreciate your link but am now confused about the differences. I am trialing the "Quilted HD" yet their "standard" looks clearer. What is your experience?
Whaup367
Active member
I may have failed to make clear that the user has to explicitly give permission to track when the application is installed. The dialogue box Google were asking for duplicates the existing permission already granted by the user. For clarity, the application works on current versions of Android.
Aha! Thank-you. Don't know why I was finding that hard.
£25 for 12 months access. No thanks.
The problem I have with subscription services like the above is that I'd prefer to buy something that won't just stop working in the near future. I can buy updated charts if and when I want to but if they are no longer available, or I choose not to do so, the tablet, plotter and charts will carry on working.
With the above services, the charts, application and software all need an ongoing subscription to operate, so even if I continue to pay for the charts, I also need to keep the OS current to support those charts and the Hardware current to support the OS. Given the limited availability and high cost of suitable hardware (eg no waterproof, impact resistant Apple gear, as referenced earlier in the thread), I'm not keen to adopt this, though fortunately we all have a choice.
Do you have any reason to distrust any of those involved in this setup? Personally, I think the services offered by Bob Bradfield at Antares, the VMH team, Robert Koenig and Steve at London Chartplotters are invaluable. I'd far rather deal with individuals that are committed to meeting a sailor's requirements than a US based corporate! IMHO we should be supporting them.
dunedin
Well-known member
I have swapped from the previous version to Quilted HD and prefer the HD version over the previous. Much easier to see isolated rocks on these than on Navionics. But it isn’t a huge difference so not worth agonising over.
Not sure how sophisticated your use of the Nav app is. I use Memory Map for All primarily for Antares Charts, walking with OS maps and backup charts. Don’t do any fancy routes or anything as have two Raymarine chart plotters as primary boat nav devices.
Tremyporth
New member
My understanding is that Memory Map offers either an annual subscription or a perpetual licence. I have the latter, both for marine charts and OS topo maps. The tablet the cartography is on is equally useful in camper van or boat. I was under the impression that MM did not intend to discontinue perpetual licences, but I have to say that a superficial visit to MM website did not immediately reveal details of perpetual licences for marine charts. However, it seems that to find fuller details prospective purchasers have to get to the "digital map store", after downloading the MM App. Just at the moment, the computer will not connect me to that. "page not available." So I can offer no further clarification.
Every so often MM has a sale, often around black friday, so if not in a hurry try delaying purchase for 3 or 4 weeks. At the time of their last sale,in May, I received the email reproduced below, which may offer some clarification of their marketing system.
Every so often MM has a sale, often around black friday, so if not in a hurry try delaying purchase for 3 or 4 weeks. At the time of their last sale,in May, I received the email reproduced below, which may offer some clarification of their marketing system.
Dear Memory-Map User,
The 1:25,000 OS Explorer map, covering all of Great Britain, is now priced at £99 for a perpetual license, or just £19.99 for a one-year subscription! Our 2023 maps are the best image quality and resolution, providing a crisp, easy to read image that allows you to zoom in further.
These prices are less than any other OS maps, but you get more advanced overlay management, offline storage (including full-country download) and you can use it on all your devices: phones, tablets, PC and Mac. The desktop apps are native programs that work offline, not just a website.
The perpetual and subscription licenses both allow the same download and offline use of the map, on Windows PC and Mac as well as iOS and Android. The 1 year subscription includes free map updates and cloud sync for overlay data. It is a single payment for the year, without any auto-renew or recurring payments. When it is time to renew, you sign into your account and simply buy the subscription package again to add one year on to the expiration of your maps.
This time last year we lauched our new cross-platform app, Memory-Map for All. The app has been enthusiastically received by most people, and there has been a steady flow of new features. For example, the mobile apps now use elevation data to plot a height profile and estimate hiking time for a route. The biggest complaint we hear is that it doesn't automatically use maps and overlay data installed in the old app. In fact Memory-Map for All has much more flexible map management including a backup and restore feature, but the old legacy apps were never designed to share data with other apps. We also get a lot of questions about the features of the old PC app, such as printing and 3D view. These are coming to MMfA in time, but MMNav has had a 20 year head-start! We still recommend MMNav for at-home planning and printing, but if you are still using the legacy apps, take a look at Memory-Map for All.
There has been a major update of our UK and Ireland Marine Charts this year. The HD charts are now at a much sharper resolution (330dpi), and all overlapping charts are available in a Quilted edition, so you don't have to keep switching charts. See HERE. The marine charts are also on sale.
New edition CAA charts are published on a schelule thought the year. If you are using CAA charts, please use the digital map store to check that you have the latest edition charts.
Best wishes from all at Memory-Map.
Richard Stephens
President, Memory-Map Inc.
Ithaca, NY
Memory-Map Outdoor Navigation Apps | Ordnance Survey | Hema Maps – Memory-Map GPS Mapping Apps for PC, Mac, iPhone, iPad, Android. Navigate with topographic maps or nautical charts offline. Download it free today.
If you no longer want to receive marketing emails from Memory-Map Inc, click to unsubscribe.
Copyright 2023 Memory-Map, Inc.
Spring Sale for Ordnance Survey maps!
The 1:25,000 OS Explorer map, covering all of Great Britain, is now priced at £99 for a perpetual license, or just £19.99 for a one-year subscription! Our 2023 maps are the best image quality and resolution, providing a crisp, easy to read image that allows you to zoom in further.
These prices are less than any other OS maps, but you get more advanced overlay management, offline storage (including full-country download) and you can use it on all your devices: phones, tablets, PC and Mac. The desktop apps are native programs that work offline, not just a website.
The perpetual and subscription licenses both allow the same download and offline use of the map, on Windows PC and Mac as well as iOS and Android. The 1 year subscription includes free map updates and cloud sync for overlay data. It is a single payment for the year, without any auto-renew or recurring payments. When it is time to renew, you sign into your account and simply buy the subscription package again to add one year on to the expiration of your maps.
- Click HERE for the 1:25,000 OS Explorer map (from £19.99)
- Click HERE for the 1:50,000 OS Landranger map (from £15)
Memory-Map for All
HD Marine Charts
There has been a major update of our UK and Ireland Marine Charts this year. The HD charts are now at a much sharper resolution (330dpi), and all overlapping charts are available in a Quilted edition, so you don't have to keep switching charts. See HERE. The marine charts are also on sale.
Aviation Charts
New edition CAA charts are published on a schelule thought the year. If you are using CAA charts, please use the digital map store to check that you have the latest edition charts.
Best wishes from all at Memory-Map.
Richard Stephens
President, Memory-Map Inc.
Ithaca, NY
Memory-Map Outdoor Navigation Apps | Ordnance Survey | Hema Maps – Memory-Map GPS Mapping Apps for PC, Mac, iPhone, iPad, Android. Navigate with topographic maps or nautical charts offline. Download it free today.
If you no longer want to receive marketing emails from Memory-Map Inc, click to unsubscribe.
Copyright 2023 Memory-Map, Inc.
Jcorstorphine
Well-known member
I have not read through all of the responses to the OP but can I confirm that my Android Tablet is still working as it had been switched off for a year. When I saw this news, I switched it on far from any source of Internet and immediately disabled WiFi etc. The tablet booted up and was able to get the Navigation App to operate normally. Have used it in the car and the GPS works as to the charts when I am close to the sea.
Plum
Well-known member
Yes, agree, but if ever that tablet connects to the internet the Marine Navigator app will no longer work even after you unlink it from the internet so I assume you will not then be able to buy the updated charts early next year. On one of my tablets, that I use for other tasks so needing internet, I have had to buy the non plystore version of the app from VHM so I can use my existing chart-set.
Plum
Well-known member
I have removed the blocked Marine Navigator app and install the non-playstore version purchased from Visit My Harbour (I am aware of the risks) on my tablet so am now up and running with my already paid for chart-set. So far, on my second tablet, I had kept WiFi turned off which prevented playstore from blocking the MN app. However, this restricts the use of other apps so as an experiment I have disabled the playstore app and turned WiFi back on. So far, the playstore version of Marine Navigator is working well and other apps that need the Internet, such as email, are working too.
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londonchartplotters
Member
it had nothing to do with compliance toandroid 10.. Google insisted tracking was intrusive, no exeptions for marine plotters. Instead of caving in, like everyone else, googlewas told to shove it!
londonchartplotters
Member
marine navs google prolems had nothing at all to do with compliance to android 10 or any other version.. Google insisted tracking was intrusive, no exeptions for marine plotters. Instead of caving in, like everyone else, google was told to shove it! Google do not own or control android.although they try.Thats why my oem app is not affected, and will install and work onAny version 4 to 13 plus.. A public version, also unnafected is availble from v.m.h.Steve
londonchartplotters
Member
marine navs google prolems had nothing at all to do with compliance to android 10 or any other version.. Google insisted tracking was intrusive, no exeptions for marine plotters. Instead of caving in, like everyone else, google was told to shove it! Google do not own or control android or us.although they try.Thats why my oem app is not affected, and will install and work onAny version 4 to 13 plus.. A public version, also unnafected is availble from v.m.h.Steve
londonchartplotters
Member
marine navs google prolems had nothing at all to do with compliance to android 10 or any other version.. Google insisted tracking was intrusive, no exeptions for marine plotters. Instead of caving in, like everyone else, google was told to shove it! Google do not own or control android.although they try.Thats why my oem app is not affected, and will install and work onAny version 4 to 13 plus.. A public version, also unnafected is availble from v.m.h.Steve
PaulRainbow
Well-known member
That's not true. I have Garmin Active Captain on a couple of tablets and phones, works fine.
Refueler
Well-known member
I always understood that the dialogue box that pops up on any app that you install --- asking about tracking / photos / contacts etc. was not generated or subject to app's approval - but purely Google asking .... in compliance with Data rules ...
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Not for me it don't. I find it useless. . I bought my Garmin 95 ?? on the understanding that I could plot a course below in the comfort of the cabin then send it to the plotter on deck. I first had to up date to a newer, I Pad which caught me unawares. Still does not work, whatever I try.
Fortunately I have a Yeoman plotter & if I need to plot a courses I use that to send to an old garmin 152 that has a repeater on deck.