Wanted! 26ft Westerly Centaur mast foot.

[Daisykindred]

Hi All, I hope someone can help. We own a 26ft Westerly Centaur and are looking for a replacement mast foot (see picture attached) The mast is made by proctor but I understand Selden took over a while back now. Please can you help me find a replacement/ know someone to have one made or point me in the right direction for someone who would have a spare.
Thanks,
Daisy

 

[Stemar]

Am I right in thinking that it's the eye at the aft end that should allow the mast to pivot for lowering that's broken off and the mast still stands on its base quite happily?

How often have you needed to drop the mast on your own in the past? If, like many (most?) the answer is very rarely or never, I'd be tempted to ignore it. tidy it up with an angle grinder if necessary, and just accept that you'll need a mast derrick in the future. Looking at your first pic, I reckon there's a fair probability that trying to remove the foot will open a pretty nasty can of worms.

 

[Daisykindred]

Am I right in thinking that it's the eye at the aft end that should allow the mast to pivot for lowering that's broken off and the mast still stands on its base quite happily?

How often have you needed to drop the mast on your own in the past? If, like many (most?) the answer is very rarely or never, I'd be tempted to ignore it. tidy it up with an angle grinder if necessary, and just accept that you'll need a mast derrick in the future. Looking at your first pic, I reckon there's a fair probability that trying to remove the foot will open a pretty nasty can of worms.

Thank you for this Stemar. Yes you are correct its the eyes that have broken/snapped off. We will consider your ideas, thank you very much.
Daisy

 

[Refueler]

I had my Proctor mast foot snapp at the eye - it was frozen and I didn't notice when lowering ... till the loud BANG and mast falling ..

Took it off mast - it only has 4 machine screws (2 each side) holding it in ... remove screws - then rubber mallet tapping the mast around the foot - it should slowly come out.
I took mine to a Metal Works and guy welded and then ground back to create strong repair ..

The matter is that the foot is cast alloy and you need a guy who is experienced with such.

 

[Daisykindred]

I had my Proctor mast foot snapp at the eye - it was frozen and I didn't notice when lowering ... till the loud BANG and mast falling ..

Took it off mast - it only has 4 machine screws (2 each side) holding it in ... remove screws - then rubber mallet tapping the mast around the foot - it should slowly come out.
I took mine to a Metal Works and guy welded and then ground back to create strong repair ..

The matter is that the foot is cast alloy and you need a guy who is experienced with such.

Fantastic, thank you for this! very helpful.

 

[Refueler]

You may also notice in the previous photo that the sheave axles have been changed from the smooth pins with cover plates - to stainless steel bolts and nuts. During earlier servicing of the mast - the pins were not so good ...

Had new pins made with plate ends - but the small screw retainers were broken so not possible to fit ...

The pins do not cross the inner channel - so when replacing with bolts all way through - I ground the centre to make sure they did not hit the deck mounting ...

I can now remove sheaves any time I want to clean etc ...

 

[ashtead]

I assume you have already asked on westerly owners forum? I guess a replacement from a scrap old centaur doesn’t work? Is the mst sound though ? What does your rigger suggest?

 

[William_H]

Hello Daisy Your problem is quite common around here. (Fremantle) due to bridges most boats are set up for self lowering of mast while under way.
The failure of the ali casting is common usually due to inadequate staying of the mast sideways in it's traverse down to near horizontal. Any passing mobo will rock the boat causing real problems. The staying is another story.
The fix is usually to remove the base and weld repair. The difficult part may be to remove the base. This should be your first concern. You may end up cutting the mast shorter by the depth of the fitting and cutting peeling the ali mast material off the base. I hope you can get the fitting out without going to that extreme. Hot water, plus gas, all sorts of release cures on this forum.
if all else fails you can design and build/have built a stainless steel foot attaching to outside of mast. In my case the bottom of the mast had a pair of lugs welded to the mast itself. There is a cap over the bottom of the mast witha slot cut in it. Works well. ol'will

 

[Refueler]

Hi William .... if the mast is same as mine - which I believe it is .... the alloy casting is not an interference fit - its not loose - but with tapping with a mallet and careful prising at the joint - it should come out.
My Proctor mast with same casting is from 1970's ... looked impossible - but in fact came out so easy - I was shocked ! The main worry was not in fact the casting coming out - but the machine screws holding it in.

As to why it breaks ? Yes - as you say - it not controlling the side swing while lowering is the most common. People come up with various ways to try control it ... especially if only using a single pole at bow with block.
As you know I put together an A frame and I can lower / raise that mast on my own ... as long as I am in quiet area and boat is steady. The trick is once mast starts to lower or raise - DON'T MOVE ... Any movement of yourself causes boat to move ,,,
With my A frame - all I need is one other person on coachroof to guide the mast down ... they also should NOT MOVE !!

Here's the video showing why they should not move : (filmed at bottom of my garden)

As I said earlier - my mast foot snapped because I was late in lowering mast for winter ... I should have realised that the pivot area was frozen. As the mast lowerd - the pivot part snapped and mast luckily only fell as much as the 'fulcrum' point of the A frame tackle allowed ...
Metal Master and I discussed creating a stainless or Dural own design ... but finally he welded the old and so far it has been fine for 2 winters since ... with no signs of any weakness.
If necessary - I would look at designing a replacement. Of course - there's no reason why the pivot action of such can be put aside and revert to a straight vertical lift option with a Hiab / Crane. Would just mean drilling through the main part to have pin for the deck mounting.

 

[William_H]

Hello Nigel Just to make sure no one gets the wrong impression. The A frame arrangement does not provide any control of the sideways inadvertant swing of the mast. It can not be relied on to do so. On a much lighter mast I use 2 spin poles ie A frame and rely on a man on cabin top keeping mast central. (and drop it quickly) Sometimes I get the kind of swing you got in video. A real worry on my tender boat as swing of the mast to the side causes boat to heel causing more mast swing.
Yes there are many ways to control mas to keep it central.
Re "freezing" of the pivot. I assumed you meant with corrosion. But now I see you mean water frozen. (different world different problems to mine)
Re Hiab/crane. Lakesailor of this parish presumably long gone to sailing heaven advocated very tall A frame that could lift the mast vertically (even keel stepped mast) from an attachment point above cofg. Interesting for small boat but very big A frame for bigger boat. ol'will

 

[Stemar]

It's all very well discussing pivoting the mast to lower it and it works well enough on trailer sailers that are designed for it but, in practice, how many people do it on a 26 footer with only a basic pivot at the foot?

I can do it on my 29' cat, but it's specifically designed for it, with a serious tabernacle and granny bars that raise the shroud bases to the height of the pivot point so they control sideways movement, plus a substantial lump of scaffolding pole that fixes to the base of the mast to allow a halliard to control the descent all the way down. There's also a cradle I can fit to the transom to support the mast. Then when we got it down, our mast was too heavy to do anything without a crane!

I can't help thinking that the DIY solutions proposed are far too likely to end in expensive tears, and you'd do far better to join a club that has a mast derrick.

 

[wallacebob]

Riggers often have old masts. Clubs often have old masts. Ask around your area. Centaurs are being broken up now, so bits come up for sale. WOA has active Wanted/For sale.

 

[Refueler]

Correct - A frame does not prevent side swing ... that's why I tell guy on cabin top to not move from centreline ..

The main reason for A frame - is to avoid where a single upright pole can fall to side as mast lowers - I had it happen and its near impossible to stop once it starts .. that was with a gin pole clipped to mast front as some suggest.

Yes - the mast foot was frozen due to the winter temp .. the ice was clear - not white ...
I also have suspicion that previous side swings may have weakened the foot - so the ice was final 'straw'.

There used to be a telescopic lifting gear sold by Chandlers such as Compass24 .. specifically for size of boats like mine / Centaur etc. but cannot find it now .. based on an A frame set either side of mast mount ...

 

[Refueler]

It's all very well discussing pivoting the mast to lower it and it works well enough on trailer sailers that are designed for it but, in practice, how many people do it on a 26 footer with only a basic pivot at the foot?

I can do it on my 29' cat, but it's specifically designed for it, with a serious tabernacle and granny bars that raise the shroud bases to the height of the pivot point so they control sideways movement, plus a substantial lump of scaffolding pole that fixes to the base of the mast to allow a halliard to control the descent all the way down. There's also a cradle I can fit to the transom to support the mast. Then when we got it down, our mast was too heavy to do anything without a crane!

I can't help thinking that the DIY solutions proposed are far too likely to end in expensive tears, and you'd do far better to join a club that has a mast derrick.

Think you'll be surprised how many boats of this size do actually raise and lower masts this way.

Why do you think the casting has such a pivot designed in ? If it was not for pivoting - then the mast bolt could be set in the main body .. but its not - its set so that it can pivot.

I've seen a number of boats - Pageants - Centaurs - Colvics etc etc with modified chainplates to raise shroud points to in line with mast foot ... I've seen many with rope sets to control side movement .. or just as I - A frame and manually stop swing.

I hope that you never fall foul of that single scaffold pole at mast base ... your shrouds matching mast base height have provided the stability that the single pole lacks. Anyone without that height match is well advised not to use a single pole .. as I found - as the mast lowers - the pole wants to collapse to one side and when it goes - you lose all control of the mast ..

 

[dunedin]

How often do you actualy need to raise or lower a mast. We average about once every 8 years or so.
With a bilge keeler generally no need to drop even if take ashore for the winter.
Using a crane every 5 years or so hardly an issue?
I don't know the mast step, but my concern would be whether the bolt is needed to ensure mast foot can't slide fore and aft when sailing.

 

[Refueler]

How often do you actualy need to raise or lower a mast. We average about once every 8 years or so.
With a bilge keeler generally no need to drop even if take ashore for the winter.
Using a crane every 5 years or so hardly an issue?
I don't know the mast step, but my concern would be whether the bolt is needed to ensure mast foot can't slide fore and aft when sailing.

How often ?

This is my opinion and based on my boats and ones I have observed over many years.

A deck stepped mast that does not have a specific compression post and relies on frame or internal bulkhead - as the boat gets older - is well worth the effort to remove mast during storage / winter. Reason is that compression can result as boat ages and support gets weaker. My SR25 - displays this well .. where deck step relies on the divider bulkhead fore cabin to aft.

But my 38 does not compress as it has a compression post specifically to counter any compression.

Lowering mast at maybe each 2yrs or so IMHO is good policy - it allows inspection and service of all parts .. instead of just leaving all up there to fend for itself ! I am guilty of leaving mast up too long and when I took down - had a lot of work to do at mast head.

The bolt ? Yes it does two things - provides pivot to raise / lower - but probably its most important job is setting the mast foot position and keeping it there. My blade fitting on deck has 5 'holes' I can choose for stepping the mast .. little bit aft .. little bit fwd ..
Its not like some other mounts that can only mount in one specific place.

Here for one season - the mast was purposely put max fwd to see effect ..

You can see the other 'holes' clearly. i It was a mistake to try as over the season - the coachroof depressed where mast was applying pressure at fwd most point of backing plate and bulkhead. Normally I would have mast set at mid point on the blade.