Volvo TAMD 73/74 and 75 ECU - Cause for concern?

[dustywings]

Does anyone know if the gel that sits in the ECUs that volvo do is pliable after heat? I remember back in 2005 when Mitsubishi started to make their headlights sealed beam units that were glued together and any form of tampering would result in the glass and lens breaking meaning most customer had to buy complete replacements. Then one bright spark realised that putting the light fitting in an oven on a low enough heat would cause the glue to become pliable and allowed you to take the said light fitting apart without damaging any internal components. Appreciate the ECUs are delicate but how did Volvo take them apart if requiring repair back in the factory?
perhaps a low enough heat not to damage or melt anything but high enough to make the gel more workable could work for taking the ECU apart?

I wouldn't imagine they repair them...just sell you a new one!

 

[kashurst]

Potting compound used in electronics is usually a 2 part epoxy resin - it doesn't come apart easily or at all.
Potting serves two purposes - it is really good at protecting the electronics from moisture and damage and makes it very difficult to reverse engineer.

Whomever made the ECUs (It wasn't Volvo) tested them properly then potted them ready for Volvo. They will have installed a basic test programme to demonstrate operation and a bit of code to allow the ECU to communicate with a PC or similar to allow that basic test programme to be overwritten. Once the original test code including uploading section was overwritten by Volvo - thats it. I suspect there is no way to interrogate the memory via the microprocesssor. The only other way is to get the memeory chip out and read the contents on a memory chip programmer - but they potted it to make that really tricky/impossible.
These ECUs don't work like modern mobile phones or tablets. They have a very specific programme. No operating systems or similar.

 

[Alicatt]

Some epoxies melt when heat is applied but I'm sure that the temperature will be higher than the components would like

 

[vas]

Potting compound used in electronics is usually a 2 part epoxy resin - it doesn't come apart easily or at all.
Potting serves two purposes - it is really good at protecting the electronics from moisture and damage and makes it very difficult to reverse engineer.

epoxy doesn't like UV, pretty sure if you leave one under some strong UV light for a few months it will be ripe

not sure about washing off, but probably would make life easier. Heat does help, epoxies generally not keen on heat either, but most likely will remove prints on the chips on their way out...
I think now is a good time to approach different cos/hackers on that.

btw thread must be quite high up on google searches on these engine models by now, so that would probably have more effect than anything written to VP .
Imperial One should point to this thread on all of his communication with VP and imho you should not "break" this thread and keep on posting here to up the views count ;-)

OTOH, unless there are realistic options for builders, no matter what you do, VP will still supply them with engines for their new builds which brings that back to square one.

V.

 

[petem]

I have heard of people using a Dremmel with a wire brush attachment to remove the potting. The potting compound is not quite solid so expect to get through a lot of wire brushes.

If you look on Youtube there are lots of other techniques such as putting them in an oven, pan of boiling water etc. Note of which are particularly successful.

 

[DavidJ]

.........but most likely will remove prints on the chips on their way out...

I think the least VP could do is tell us what components are in the box.

 

[vas]

I think the least VP could do is tell us what components are in the box.

isn't that their IP David?
the fact that they themselves cannot use it is irrelevant I guess

 

[andy59]

I think Volvo Penta need to come clean with their ACTUAL intention. Either they are doing their best to get them made with all the difficulties with supply etc at the moment, or, they have NO intention of manufacturing more , and if not, will they be helpfull in letting a 3rd party copy them .Maybe a few emails to Hel'ene Mellquist will encourage some info. Unless they are using the "head in the sand" principle hoping that this PR problem will go away.

 

[vas]

IMHO it's crazy to believe that they do have any intention whatsoever to built new ECUs, unless the original company is still in business and can do it cheaply - but I think it was mentioned many pages above that is not the case.
It's going to be a long can kicking exercise...

 

[petem]

isn't that their IP David?
the fact that they themselves cannot use it is irrelevant I guess

Many companies, for example Microsoft (Microsoft and open source - Wikipedia ) open source their legacy code / IP.

There's a lot of benefits in doing this, for example encouraging customer loyalty. Also, the Open Source licenses can mitigate any future liability issues.

 

[vas]

I know Pete, but isn't it usually S/W companies doing so? Wonder when others actually catch up on this concept.

 

[andy59]

Another thought, Yacht Devices must have some knowledge of this ECU as they figured out the engine data ?

 

[vas]

Andy that could be a J1939 or some other canbus incarnation protocol, but it's mainly broadcasting engine data (rpm, temps, etc)
interfacing to this part (I'd call it external) of the ECU is not much to do with actually operating the inside bits.

 

[andy59]

Ah ok, just clutching at straws ?, but on a positive note I intend to take my ecu’s for a trip to Cornwall in the next few weeks ?

 

[jon and michie]

I’m sending 2 ecu from tamd73-PA to this company. They informed me they can make some repairs to these units. Has anyone tried them. View attachment 113415

If this is successful - then it will be a well deserved kick in the nads for volvo.

 

[petem]

Andy that could be a J1939 or some other canbus incarnation protocol, but it's mainly broadcasting engine data (rpm, temps, etc)
interfacing to this part (I'd call it external) of the ECU is not much to do with actually operating the inside bits.

It's J1587 over J1708.

 

[petem]

To solve this, you need to work out the mappings for the VP37 injectio pump. The same pump was fitted to VW Passats and other cars of that era.

It is possible to do this with an Arduino, see Arduino powered ECU for diesel engines.

 

[petem]

Andy that could be a J1939 or some other canbus incarnation protocol, but it's mainly broadcasting engine data (rpm, temps, etc)
interfacing to this part (I'd call it external) of the ECU is not much to do with actually operating the inside bits.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it is also broadcasting the values that the ECU is receiving from the senders and also so what the ECU is telling the injection pump to do.

 

[kashurst]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it is also broadcasting the values that the ECU is receiving from the senders and also so what the ECU is telling the injection pump to do.

sorry Pete - it doesn't. The ecu control signals to the VE pump are not digital communications.

 

[petem]

sorry Pete - it doesn't. The ecu control signals to the VE pump are not digital communications.

But it might also transmit something to tell vodia what it's doing.