Volvo Penta IPS 500 Steering failure

[Petrolia]

Hi there,
Sold our Nimbus Nova 42 Petrolia last March and then recently accidentally bought a Rodman 41 !
Despite survey & sea trial it is proving a money pit already.
It has VP IPS 500 engines /drive

Main current problem I'm hoping someone can help with is the EVC repeatedly reporting 'limited steering - limited RPM'.
Sometimes the boat will run for 2hrs before this occurs. Sometimes only 20mins. Stopping and starting the engines clears the fault but once it has occurred the fault normally comes back within a few minutes. The fault forces the boat into 'limp mode'.

I have had VP 'engineers' on the boat 3 times and they can't tell me what is going on. The EVC shows fault codes 4.2.3 & 4.4.9. I can see in the Volvo manual that this is a problem with steering but the Volvo engineers can't even give me any more detail or suggest what to do. This issue is always happening on the starboard drive.

Any advice ?
Thanks in advance.

 

[rubberduck]

We have same problem, trying a new helm tomorrow, engineer said he replaced many under warranty in the past.

 

[Petrolia]

Our problem occurs whether we use upper or lower helm so I don't think our issue is a problem with the helm itself.
From your photo looks like your sportboat only has one helm.
Pretty sad that Volvo can't pinpoint the problems. Just want to systematically change things out until they find it.
I think it's probably a minor issue. Loose connection or faulty sensor somewhere. It's just finding it !

Looks like I need to change my pic to new boat. It's called Kiwi.

 

[jrudge]

Who did you buy it off? I suspect it was a pre existing fault.

Do Volvo or local dealers have records of dealing with it? Even private sellers cannot knowingly misrepresent.

 

[Portofino]

Without intimacy of IPS , but some knowledge of hi tech cars + fault codes .
First there should be a Volvo [ up to date scanner ) which authorised VP guys should be able to interrogate and bring up more pages and go deep into codes on there lap top ?

If there isn’t then that’s a pretty terrible position.

With cars you get stuff like “ implausible signal “ or “ short to GNd” of this and that censor .
Implausible signal means the sensor is sending out a reading , it's wired up correctly but it’s knackered.
Short to GNd usually means a wired loose or chaffed etc , just needs locating reconnecting etc .

Point is the computer tells you .

Also you can reset and adjust , recalibrate stuff in ECU ,s with the lap top there are pages and pages of every minutiae of detail .eg clutch pick up point , throttle potentiometer range etc etc .as well as domestic stuff like wiper blade stop position etc etc etc

Most manufacturers retail theses systems under a licence to a dealer who is trapped into annual / monthly subscription s for updates .Some stuff is timed out .Some stuff the public can get hold of .Ferraris “ Leonardo “ system is authorised dealer only for example and is £30 K .

Unauthorised guys but highly reputable might buy a one off but it soon becomes out of date as they fail to keep up with upgrades and stuff times out .

So this might explain why the VP dealer is getting nowhere with his diagnostic system ?? He’s not paid the ransom , fallen behind .

So it’s back to first principles in the absence of a working diagnostic lap top that tells you what’s wrong .
1- wiring to sensors relating to steering .
2-wiring to the joystick and it’s ECU
3- wiring to the steering wheel ? Is there a position sensor ? To tell an ECU it’s moving / turning ?
4 - sensors on the pod ? Where / how many
5- the ram - sensors ?
6 - hydraulics- fluid level or pressure sensors
7- hydraulic pump- pressure output any sensors , it’s belt ? Or is it electric - where’s the hydraulic pressure come from ?
8 - ECUs there multi pin plugs - corrosion?
9 - ought added post build like a autopilot/ plotter that may send a false erroneous steering input ? Have you eliminated those running with them off ?
10 , is it initiated with the steering wheel or joystick or both ?
11- History of recent work / dismantling as is it all been put back exactly as it was .Bent spade or crap in a connector ?

 

[Portofino]

Sometimes you get a software only problem develop .
With cars the techs run through the diagnostic ( with the latest updated kit ) and it draws a blank despite what I have said above ^^^^
The next thing they do is empty the relevant ECU , suck out the software ,place it in the lap top then reload back into the ECU and re set / recalibrate what ever system it’s from .

This normally fixes the issue without a expensive exercise parts throwing at it fest

Apparently the software can develop “brain farts “ which need cleaning out for a fix .
Takes a while a few hrs to down load / upload / recalibrate etc .

 

[Boat2016]

Might be worth getting another VP dealer involved, ask around and find one that has experience of IPS and is familiar with what they are looking at.

 

[petem]

We have same problem, trying a new helm tomorrow, engineer said he replaced many under warranty in the past.

Hi RD, does that mean you're back on the water? That's good news innit?

 

[petem]

Sometimes you get a software only problem develop .
With cars the techs run through the diagnostic ( with the latest updated kit ) and it draws a blank despite what I have said above ^^^^
The next thing they do is empty the relevant ECU , suck out the software ,place it in the lap top then reload back into the ECU and re set / recalibrate what ever system it’s from .

This normally fixes the issue without a expensive exercise parts throwing at it fest

Apparently the software can develop “brain farts “ which need cleaning out for a fix .
Takes a while a few hrs to down load / upload / recalibrate etc .

Porto, have you been following the "Sam Crac" Ferrari rebuild channel on Youtube? Would be right up your street.

 

[petem]

Hi there,
Sold our Nimbus Nova 42 Petrolia last March and then recently accidentally bought a Rodman 41 !
Despite survey & sea trial it is proving a money pit already.
It has VP IPS 500 engines /drive

Main current problem I'm hoping someone can help with is the EVC repeatedly reporting 'limited steering - limited RPM'.
Sometimes the boat will run for 2hrs before this occurs. Sometimes only 20mins. Stopping and starting the engines clears the fault but once it has occurred the fault normally comes back within a few minutes. The fault forces the boat into 'limp mode'.

I have had VP 'engineers' on the boat 3 times and they can't tell me what is going on. The EVC shows fault codes 4.2.3 & 4.4.9. I can see in the Volvo manual that this is a problem with steering but the Volvo engineers can't even give me any more detail or suggest what to do. This issue is always happening on the starboard drive.

Any advice ?
Thanks in advance.

Sadly, I don't think you'll get a lot of detailed advice as most of use tend to regard IPS drives as the work of the devil.

Good luck though (perhaps also try boatdiesel.com or some of the other American boating forums)?

 

[Kyle Reese]

Whilst I know nothing about boats I do know a bit about heavy diesels and hydraulics. IME when you have a fault that only shows up after some running time you are looking at generally either:

Some kind of ECU time out or pre set number of error message counts to trip into limp mode.
Wiring fault that only becomes apparent with movement.
Faulty / bad signal sensor on another system which is in loop to the system which is flagging that in itself is not monitored.

As you have 2 error codes I am going to say its either the first or the last option, or maybe both at once.

I have not had much luck with Volvo engines over the years and we stopped using them about 10 years ago. Used to be bullet proof but IME they are not as good as the used to be. I know that does not help you but just IME.

Volvo will 100% have a faulting process for those error codes. Good quality workshop manuals are usually around on ebay too, which generally don't have the level of detail that the computer systems have they do usually have wiring diagrams etc which can help tracing faults and checking systems.

 

[Portofino]

Porto, have you been following the "Sam Crac" Ferrari rebuild channel on Youtube? Would be right up your street.

No .
Up to my neck on my own with a Bentley .
My current Fcar is a analogue 70,s you know points n plugs , not a ECU in sight .Just two lights on the dash , a blue one for high beam and a red one for broken alternator belt -easy diy as simple and reliable as a wheel barrow.No Abs no airbags no nought .
Remember jamming the brakes on a car and feeling a front lock , it feels great
I’ve had a 360 M and before that a Testorossa .The 360 ,s full of electrotwackry but reliable with it .

The Bentley GT is a four wheeled version of Volvo Penta in terms of gremlins mostly sensor or connection issues .
How ever the dealer software for interrogation is $300 and freely available it does the rest of the VAG com group to .Audi ,VW Porsche , Seat , Skoda and Lamborghini as well as Bentley they share the same pulse Modulation signal architecture.

That’s why I can’t understand why the OPs VP guy cant get to the bottom if this ??
Guessing he’s not got the correct kit - software wise .

 

[petem]

No .
Up to my neck on my own with a Bentley .
My current Fcar is a analogue 70,s you know points n plugs , not a ECU in sight .Just two lights on the dash , a blue one for high beam and a red one for broken alternator belt -easy diy as simple and reliable as a wheel barrow.No Abs no airbags no nought .
Remember jamming the brakes on a car and feeling a front lock , it feels great
I’ve had a 360 M and before that a Testorossa .The 360 ,s full of electrotwackry but reliable with it .

The Sam Crac video is a 360. Must say, if I had the cash I'd be tempted by one (but not a crappy bodged insurance write off).

Did your Testarossa have the mad wing mirrors? Love them.

 

[volvopaul]

RD , the whole system is electric , the steering oart is in the upper drive and it’s a very simple system .
I’m assuming you are on the east coast ?
How old is the boat , I’m seeing a lot of corrosion issues on the D6/IPS boats these days particularly the targa 44.
If the faults re occurred many times then there must be a wiring bad connection issue which if the system sees a break or incorrect resistance it goes to limp mode.
Has the dealer split the loom plugs , cleaned the terminals to the steering motor .
That’s a start , who have you had look at it?

 

[Portofino]

The Sam Crac video is a 360. Must say, if I had the cash I'd be tempted by one (but not a crappy bodged insurance write off).

Did your Testarossa have the mad wing mirrors? Love them.

Yes it was a monospeccio ( sp ?) one high up mirror but I had I converted easily to a twin mirror set because I couldn't see out .
The knock on hubs , a huge single bolt and a spanner that came with a lead mallet where fun .TRX tyres metric rims .
Those Rudge hub modals are collectible now I sold it after 12 years for 2x what I paid for it .

 

[Ratkins]

Hi

I have ips and I know that the helm control ecu has everything going to it then down to the engines might be an idea to check connections here 1st ensure there on tight no corrosion etc.

 

[Petrolia]

Hi again,
Thanks for all your imputs.
I bought the boat from a private seller through Why Boats acting as broker.
The steering error we now see didn't show up on the sea trial but I suspect the seller knew there was an issue.
I've now had further input from Volvo and an independent ex Volvo engineer and it seems likely it's the 'resolver' that's failing. I looked online briefly and it seems the resolver costs +/- £1500 !!!!!!!
Absolutely outrageous price in my opinion. Seems to be a titchy little part.

The independent guy is reviewing VP vodia job logs and if he is sure the resolver is at issue I guess I have to bite the bullet & get a new resolver fitted. It will be a real bummer if I go to that cost and it doesn't solve the problem. Maybe I'd be better off with a new pair of IPS drives than continue with these very early versions ?

Thanks again.
P

 

[Kyle Reese]

You might be able to find one on ebay.

 

[jrudge]

If you can prove ( ie find the dealer that was originally dealing with the problem near where the vendor is based then you have some ( some) claim.

Even a private seller can't misrepresent. So if they said "in great condition and ready for the season" but knew there was a fault this would be misrepresentation.

If they said nothing - I don't know. They will also argue that you had it surveyed.

I PXd a T40 with boats.co.uk. they sold it and 5 hours later the leg went. That leg had been rebuilt by Volvo 3 year prior and the receipts were with the boat - so it had been done correctly and it was disclosed as in the paperwork. There were nil indication of issues. They asked me to contribute and I did. No obligation on me to do so - even less given boats are a dealer.

Ask the vendor - cheaper than a small claim and you never know.

 

[rubberduck]

Hi RD, does that mean you're back on the water? That's good news innit?

Back in so she can be brought back to Essex, at least I can look at her then.