Volvo Penta 4.3 GXi Water In Engine/Oil.

[Riggy]

This has probably been asked before at some point but the myriad of Volvo Penta engine threads is mind boggling.


Previous owner said he had regular maintenance done but after owning this boat for a year and a half I am finding to my cost that he didn't and it's turning into an expensive Jonah boat. The raw water intakes/manifolds should be changed every 5/6 years and this boat is now over 10 years old so he obviously hadn't done essential maintenance.
The water had come from the left hand raw water intake/cooling system (which had corroded/disintegrated on the inside along with the gaskets, which led to the water ingress) which I (my mechanic) have now changed but my problem is, getting the water/oil mix of sludge out of a cold engine. We have tried pumping out through the oil dipstick tube but the sludge is stone cold and too thick.
Unfortunately it has taken nearly two months since the engine stopped running, to find and rectify the problem and renew the raw water intake, leaving gathering rust on the engine moving parts. Thus the bores have been dosed with WD40 through the spark plug holes and in a couple of days my excellent mechanic, with my help, will try turning the engine over by hand to try and release the piston rings from the bores gently (presuming they have gummed up with forming rust) before attempting a start. If we can start her up the sludge will be easy to drain when it is hot, with an electric pump but at this moment we/he are not too hopeful.

If anyone has any info/suggestions/knowledge about this situation I would be grateful.

 

[julians]

I didn't think failed exhaust manifolds and or manifold gaskets resulted in water getting into the oil, it usually results in water in the cylinders, which is still bad news,but different to your problem.

Water in oil is usually the result of a failed head gasket.

 

[scottie]

Does it say change or inspect as the life may be about 5/6 years or should they be drained ?
If you have had almost 2 seasons out of them I would suggest blaiming the previous owner is a bit harsh
How did you maintain them ?

 

[[2068]]

I wouldn’t try a start with sludge in the sump: an expensive problem could turn into a very expensive problem.
I’d lift the engine, clean the sump and anywhere else the sludge has gone, gently free up the rings, fill with clean oil and try again.

 

[Scarron]

I wouldn’t try a start with sludge in the sump: an expensive problem could turn into a very expensive problem.
I’d lift the engine, clean the sump and anywhere else the sludge has gone, gently free up the rings, fill with clean oil and try again.

I agree, having rebuilt a couple of chevy based V8's it's just not worth the risk.

Lift the engine out, take the heads off, sump off, crank rods and pistons out, then a full clean and inspect, replace anything marginal. At the very least mains and big end shells and new rings.

Parts are very cheap for these engines, compare Re-power Marine, Keypart or Summit Racing in the States. The Mercruiser and Volvo parts are generally interchangeable.

As it's a cast iron raw water cooled V6 the inlet manifold / gasket / head fit needs to be right. Exhaust manifolds and risers are consumables and must be changed every 5 years, just bear in mind that everywhere cooling water goes is at risk, that being said they are pretty robust with big heavy thick wall castings and dead easy to rebuild, if a bit lumpy.

If it is questionable then a new long block from Re-power or similar may be the more cost effective option

 

[QBhoy]

Hi there
I’m pretty familiar with these GM V engines. Having had a few in various generations of their existence.
Firstly I would say that yours is the most modern of the 4.3 gm and may have the safe exhaust and risers set up. Not a given but some do. This would mean it didn’t come from there.
If it did, that’s fine.

The main reason I wanted to comment was that sometime an unknown fact is, that if your boat had a bung plug, pull it out and you may just find a drain pipe attached to it which comes from the sump. I have one on mine. Only ever used it once and takes ages for a cold oil change but may be use ful here.
If the sludge is that bad, id fill the engine sump with diesel, pull the dead man lanyard out and crank here over to mix with the diesel without starting it. Do this a few times until I pressure builds up and the sludge should start to clear. Drain it all, new filter (they are cheap) and repeat as many times as you need to.
After a few cycles at this, you should be good to put oil in (also cheap). Run her up to temp and monitor. Drain this, new filter and repeat with fresh oil as many times as you need to.
No need to take the engine out. They are hardy engines these things. Considered one of the best, if not the best engine ever put in a boat.

 

[Saltsail]

go easier way, get mobile marine engineer to drain your oil and do a full service, then check how much water and how fast its getting into your engine, solution might be simpler than you think.
If you lift your engine out it means that you either rebuild your old engine or fit a new one. Repairing head gasket its just a beginning to an end 99% of cases.

 

[Riggy]

I agree, having rebuilt a couple of chevy based V8's it's just not worth the risk.

Lift the engine out, take the heads off, sump off, crank rods and pistons out, then a full clean and inspect, replace anything marginal. At the very least mains and big end shells and new rings.

Parts are very cheap for these engines, compare Re-power Marine, Keypart or Summit Racing in the States. The Mercruiser and Volvo parts are generally interchangeable.

As it's a cast iron raw water cooled V6 the inlet manifold / gasket / head fit needs to be right. Exhaust manifolds and risers are consumables and must be changed every 5 years, just bear in mind that everywhere cooling water goes is at risk, that being said they are pretty robust with big heavy thick wall castings and dead easy to rebuild, if a bit lumpy.

If it is questionable then a new long block from Re-power or similar may be the more cost effective option

Hi and thanks. One thing I omitted to mention is I am in southern Spain so parts down here are quite expensive.

I think your post answers several previous questions raised. Indeed the cast iron raw water inlet is at fault as I described. Disintegrated from the inside and allowed water to flow across the also knackered gaskets into the manifold.
Bear in mind I am not the mechanical one so technical advice I will have to relay to my mechanic.


Yes the cast iron water intake lumps x 2 have been changed but was hoping there was a method of flushing out the engine? to at least get the cylinders moving by hand to trying to assess damage at each stage before moving on to engine out and expensive refit. Having never had a marine engine full of water is why I am asking what at times may sound daft questions, but to me are pertinent as I am a not so well-heeled pensioner trying to do a damage limitation exercise.

I will relay all advice here to my mechanic. Thanks.

 

[Riggy]

Hi there
I’m pretty familiar with these GM V engines. Having had a few in various generations of their existence.
Firstly I would say that yours is the most modern of the 4.3 gm and may have the safe exhaust and risers set up. Not a given but some do. This would mean it didn’t come from there.
If it did, that’s fine.

The main reason I wanted to comment was that sometime an unknown fact is, that if your boat had a bung plug, pull it out and you may just find a drain pipe attached to it which comes from the sump. I have one on mine. Only ever used it once and takes ages for a cold oil change but may be use ful here.
If the sludge is that bad, id fill the engine sump with diesel, pull the dead man lanyard out and crank here over to mix with the diesel without starting it. Do this a few times until I pressure builds up and the sludge should start to clear. Drain it all, new filter (they are cheap) and repeat as many times as you need to.
After a few cycles at this, you should be good to put oil in (also cheap). Run her up to temp and monitor. Drain this, new filter and repeat with fresh oil as many times as you need to.
No need to take the engine out. They are hardy engines these things. Considered one of the best, if not the best engine ever put in a boat.

Thanks, this is exactly the direction in which my mechanic has been going, hence asking about sludge removal.
Will search the manual and also physically search for any bung plug but so far only found a drain plug on the lower left side of the sump. Current problem is getting the cylinders unlocked as there appears to be no way of getting a hand crank on the engine. My mechanic is averse giving the electric start a very short blip in case it damages the rings. Hence unlocking the cylinders in the bores by hand first.
Advice being relayed now.

 

[moresparks]

I had a similar problem on a Volvo Penta petrol engine some while back. Never really got to the bottom of why the pistons seized after a period of not being used. My mechanic took the head off and poured diesel into the bores and left it for a few days. This successfully released the pistons and made it easier to drain the cold oil. A couple of oil changes, new gaskets etc and checks and it was good to go. I wouldn't try to start using the starter motor without trying to turn by hand first as this could damage the starter motor and ring gear, but I would expect your mechanic to know that.

 

[moresparks]

"My mechanic is averse giving the electric start a very short blip in case it damages the rings. Hence unlocking the cylinders in the bores by hand first."

"I wouldn't try to start using the starter motor without trying to turn by hand first as this could damage the starter motor and ring gear, but I would expect your mechanic to know that."

Apologies - should pay more attention!!!

 

[Riggy]

I had a similar problem on a Volvo Penta petrol engine some while back. Never really got to the bottom of why the pistons seized after a period of not being used. My mechanic took the head off and poured diesel into the bores and left it for a few days. This successfully released the pistons and made it easier to drain the cold oil. A couple of oil changes, new gaskets etc and checks and it was good to go. I wouldn't try to start using the starter motor without trying to turn by hand first as this could damage the starter motor and ring gear, but I would expect your mechanic to know that.

I did read that parafin was a good release agent but deisel is probably about the same. Trying to do it through spark plug holes before lifting the head.
As above posts, we are trying to get the engine to turn by hand first. Will know tomorrow

 

[Riggy]

go easier way, get mobile marine engineer to drain your oil and do a full service, then check how much water and how fast its getting into your engine, solution might be simpler than you think.
If you lift your engine out it means that you either rebuild your old engine or fit a new one. Repairing head gasket its just a beginning to an end 99% of cases.

Water ingressing through the failed sea water intakes which were corroded to hell. Iron so thin at the gasket faces that it was impossible to skim. Intakes replaced.
Good tip re the marine services.

 

[Riggy]

Does it say change or inspect as the life may be about 5/6 years or should they be drained ?
If you have had almost 2 seasons out of them I would suggest blaiming the previous owner is a bit harsh
How did you maintain them ?

They should be re-newed every 5/6 years. From the amount of corrosion inside, as said before, the metal was so thin at the gasket faces, it would have had to be skimmed about 1/2 inch off to obtain enough surface to re-gasket and even then my mechanic doubted if it would seal properly, hence fitted new. That amount of corrosion doesn't happen in 5/6 years otherwise the manufacturers would have recommended a shorter exchange period like 3/4 years.
They cannot be maintained, only re-newed.

 

[Scarron]

They should be re-newed every 5/6 years. From the amount of corrosion inside, as said before, the metal was so thin at the gasket faces, it would have had to be skimmed about 1/2 inch off to obtain enough surface to re-gasket and even then my mechanic doubted if it would seal properly, hence fitted new. That amount of corrosion doesn't happen in 5/6 years otherwise the manufacturers would have recommended a shorter exchange period like 3/4 years.
They cannot be maintained, only re-newed.

View attachment 74487

Er by the way those are the exhausts and risers not the intakes, the raw cooling water having circulated through the block, heads and intake manifold then leaves through a couple of transfer hoses into the exhaust manifold and up through the gasketed joint you illustrate into the riser then mixes with the exhaust gases in the rubber transfer hoses.

see below


If that is your failure point [ which is extremely common] then yes, you will have had salt water sitting on the pistons and corroding the rings and valve sets and stems as well as running down onto the crankshaft bearings.. If you catch it very quickly then you may be lucky with your present approach, but I am afraid that is very unlikely if the water was in there for more than a very few days.

In which case it's heads off and attempt to beat the pistons out of the bores with a big copper mallet and a block of wood.

Good luck

 

[Riggy]

Er by the way those are the exhausts and risers not the intakes, the raw cooling water having circulated through the block, heads and intake manifold then leaves through a couple of transfer hoses into the exhaust manifold and up through the gasketed joint you illustrate into the riser then mixes with the exhaust gases in the rubber transfer hoses.

see below
View attachment 74495

If that is your failure point [ which is extremely common] then yes, you will have had salt water sitting on the pistons and corroding the rings and valve sets and stems as well as running down onto the crankshaft bearings.. If you catch it very quickly then you may be lucky with your present approach, but I am afraid that is very unlikely if the water was in there for more than a very few days.

In which case it's heads off and attempt to beat the pistons out of the bores with a big copper mallet and a block of wood.

Good luck

Thanks for the heads up. I did say I wasn't the mechanical genius on this job.

 

[lynallbel]

Th VP Neutra Salt system is very good
We had it on a very late carbed 4.3 and I removed the manifolds at 6 years old and stuck them back with new gaskets as they were perfectly sound.
The Neutra Salt fluid is pretty dear, 60 gbp for 4 litres.

 

[shetland]

I have a 2010 Volvo 4.3 GXiE and have not yet replaced the risers.
Bought the engine from new, and a nuetra salt system installed at the same time.
It's also on a dry stack which helps.

 

[Seastoke]

I have a 2010 Volvo 4.3 GXiE and have not yet replaced the risers.
Bought the engine from new, and a nuetra salt system installed at the same time.
It's also on a dry stack which helps.

How does dry stack help the engine ,I can see it helps legs

 

[[2068]]

How does dry stack help the engine ,I can see it helps legs

It helps because the exhaust pipe doesn’t spend it’s life with a column of salty water bobbing up and down inside it.