vhf radio usage

[timbartlett]

Please don't shoot the messenger but the official marine voice procedure is:
the name or callsign of the callee up to three times
followed by "this is"
the name or callsign of the caller up to three times
followed by "over"

If you are calling another vessel, you can call on Channel 16 but must immediately agree to move to a mutually convenient working channel. Officially, the callee has the final choice, but in reality in makes sense for the caller to suggest one.

If you are calling a coast station (other than the coastguard) you should call on their preferred working channel: most coaststations only have one or two channels, and few can use Ch16

All transmissions (i.e. every time you press the PTT switch) must be identified and addressed -- but there's no need for repeats
the name or callsign of the callee (usually the name) once
followed by the pro-words "this is"
the name or callsign of the caller (usually the name) once will do

Yes, it's different from military, naval, aviation, police, ambulance, fire service and CB procedure. No, the coastguards don't all invariably use it. No it doesn't make 100% perfectly complete sense. And no, you probably won't get fined if you get it wrong.

But it's the way it is.

 

[pteron]

"Roger" is a pro word meaning message received and understood.

Is tending to be deprecated these days, but contrary to the post above is evidence that the user was correctly trained albeit a while ago.

"Over and out" has never been correct usage and should result in the user standing a large round at the bar.

 

[mad_boater]

Solent Coastguard use "roger" all the time - do you think they have a licence?

If you read the booklet on the procedure to be used it says don't use 2nd world war jargon at least thats what it said in the book of rules I used to pass my examination

 

[Reverend Ludd]

When I did my VHF what must be about 25/30 years ago saying "Roger" or "Over and Out" got you a pointy hat with a D on it.
I recently re-took my VHF to get the DSC bit added and things were the same.

I don't believe they were ever acceptable in a yacht.
You can say them of course, if you want to see an old sailor choke on his coffee.

 

[prv]

When I did my VHF what must be about 25/30 years ago saying "Roger" or "Over and Out" got you a pointy hat with a D on it.

"Over and out" is obviously daft - "over" means "I have finished talking and expect a reply", "out" means "I have finished talking and do not expect a reply". Combining the two is nonsense.

But "roger" is a valid pro-word in some circles, and using it on marine VHF doesn't seem like such a heinous crime to me. It fills a useful role, too - what would you replace it with?

Pete

 

[pteron]

The point I was trying to make is that "roger" is an internationally recognised pro word and is still used correctly in many forms of radio communication. I was formally taught to use Roger when I took my aviation vhf course in 1991.

On the contrary, "over and out" is a distortion of the procedure introduced by ignorant TV and film usage and has never been correct. "over" means I am waiting for your next transmission. "out" means I've finished and you don't need to respond. Mutually incompatible.

Where I learned to fly, we would line up at the bar when the magic phrase came over the radio

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Where I learned to fly, we would line up at the bar when the magic phrase came over the radio

I thought we were talking Marine VHF

 

[l'escargot]

If you read the booklet on the procedure to be used it says don't use 2nd world war jargon at least thats what it said in the book of rules I used to pass my examination

Perhaps you would like to point that out to Solent Coastguard then. I don't think you will find that the it's use is a good indication of whether someone is licenced or not.

 

[timbartlett]

"Over and out" is obviously daft - "over" means "I have finished talking and expect a reply", "out" means "I have finished talking and do not expect a reply". Combining the two is nonsense.

+1

But "roger" is a valid pro-word in some circles, and using it on marine VHF doesn't seem like such a heinous crime to me. It fills a useful role, too - what would you replace it with?

Pete

- 1

Roger comes from the old days of morse radiotelegraphy, when operators acknowedged receipt by sending the dit dah dit (morse R) as an abbreviation for the word "received".
In early voice procedure, the phonetic Roger was used to mean R, so "Roger" became used as a synonym for R, which was itself an abbreviation for "received".

Roger is not a marine pro-word, nor is it in the International Marine Vocabulary.
Nor is "Tally Ho bandits ten o'clock high skipper" "Wilco" "Tacka tacka tacka tacka" "Bomb gone" or "******" (let's see what the swear filter does to that little piece of perfectly non-racist british history!)

PS the bit that the swear filter saw fit to delete was the name of Guy Gibson's dog, used as a codeword in the Dambuster's raid, but now, apparently, illegal.

 

[thomshap]

The problem is people who fly planes are being forced onto the water with the soaring price of fuel and they bring their mannorisims with them. I have a CAA radio licence and the lingo is very different .

I'm pretty sure I was taught to call the name twice unless it's a mayday then it's three times.

 

[johnchristie]

Portsmouth QHM will.

They want something like "QHM, this is Kwakas, requesting permission to cross to Gunwharf, over".

Efficient, but not exactly standard.

this is what confused me.
i thought you hailed the station x 2/3 times followed by boat name x 2/3 but this transmission to qhm didnt follow what it thought you were supposed to say. seems there is no consistent standard
now need to find a vhf course

 

[Solitaire]

this is what confused me.
i thought you hailed the station x 2/3 times followed by boat name x 2/3 but this transmission to qhm didnt follow what it thought you were supposed to say. seems there is no consistent standard
now need to find a vhf course

It all comes down to common sense really. QHM is keeping a constant watch on Ch 11 and does not need - in fact I have heard him tell people not to call him "correctly" to be hailed in such a way. The same applies to the main port controls such as Dover and Ramsgate. You would be over spoken before you had even started!

 

[[2068]]

I got it completely wrong. Probably should have been listening to the traffic first, but having got it "wrong" I then got a lesson on the format that they did want.

Probably much rolling of eyes and shaking of heads in the QHM office that day.
"We'll learn 'em, and if they don't, we'll keep hitting 'em until they doos".

 

[[2068]]

It all comes down to common sense really. QHM is keeping a constant watch on Ch 11 and does not need - in fact I have heard him tell people not to call him "correctly" to be hailed in such a way. The same applies to the main port controls such as Dover and Ramsgate. You would be over spoken before you had even started!

Makes sense when you describe it that way, but maybe a note on the QHM website to that effect might help non-locals to get it right first time

 

[FishyInverness]

Ok, now home with RYA VHF Radio course handbook in...um..hand, quotation verbatim from "Getting Ready to make a routine call"

HOW TO CALL
First, you must decide how many times you are going to call the other station's name. The general rule is:

Calling another Ship Station
1. Say their name twice if they are likely to be near the radio but if the weather is bad and the wind is howling it may be prudent to call three times - the Rules states that the maximum is three times.
2 Say your name twice or three times as necessary.
<Snip the example text from the book>

Calling a marina
1. Select the working channel of the marina (normally Ch80 in the UK) then say their name just once as they are usually listening for calls.
2. Say your own ship's name twice
<Snip the example>

(Under making a distress call it reads that the name is stated three times, but does not state that this is in "the rules" - in training we were instructed that in making a distress call you state the name three times.)

 

[Solitaire]

Makes sense when you describe it that way, but maybe a note on the QHM website to that effect might help non-locals to get it right first time

Well, if you had done your VHF certificate with me you would have been told! LOL. Of course there is an operational procedure for the main calls - Distress (Mayday) Urgency (Pan Pan) and Safety (Securite), but after that it wouldn't hurt for people to be more observant when it comes to operating in major traffic areas. The same would apply to calling Southampton VTS, I advise that if you need to call them then once only will do - but it is important to listen for a break in transmission from other vessels before launching into dialogue!

 

[hlb]

What I want to know is, who the hell was Roger.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Ok, now home with RYA VHF Radio course handbook in...um..hand, quotation verbatim from "Getting Ready to make a routine call"

HOW TO CALL
First, you must decide how many times you are going to call the other station's name. The general rule is:

Calling another Ship Station
1. Say their name twice if they are likely to be near the radio but if the weather is bad and the wind is howling it may be prudent to call three times - the Rules states that the maximum is three times.
2 Say your name twice or three times as necessary.
<Snip the example text from the book>

Calling a marina
1. Select the working channel of the marina (normally Ch80 in the UK) then say their name just once as they are usually listening for calls.
2. Say your own ship's name twice
<Snip the example>

(Under making a distress call it reads that the name is stated three times, but does not state that this is in "the rules" - in training we were instructed that in making a distress call you state the name three times.)

Now you have the book you have the correct way to call.

 

[Rocksteadee]

Roger, roger....eh?
This is over, over
Whats your clearance, clarence, over....eh?

Airplane...circa, some time ago

Sorry chaps but this thread has gone on long enough without throwing that one in

 

[Rocksteadee]

Over and out used to be used in days long ago when the PTT was not a button but a switch
This was said by the speaker of the final transmission to remind themselves to switch the transmit switch back to receive prior to finishing the transmission...the out was to end the transmission