Using VHF in Belgian & Dutch waters

DanTribe

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I was watching the Lady Liselot video of the trip Blankenberg to Vlissingen. I note that he called Zeebrugge for permission to cross the entrance and Vlissingen Traffic Centre to cross the shipping lanes. He also had conversation with one of the ships.
It never occured to me to do this, should I have done?
 

Daydream believer

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In 50 years & numerous crossings between Breskens & Flushing, I have never done it.
That being said I did call Zeebrugge once when passing because i saw a ship that looked as though it was coming out. They said it was not & did not show much interest in me.
 

DanTribe

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In 50 years & numerous crossings between Breskens & Flushing, I have never done it.
That being said I did call Zeebrugge once when passing because i saw a ship that looked as though it was coming out. They said it was not & did not show much interest in me.
That pretty well sums up my attitude. Listen to the VHF but don't speak. I assume the traffic centres have enough to deal with without worrying about people in toy boats.
 

johnalison

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It’s a long time since I was there, but I think that we had to call up when we passed the Hook, but I have never called in anywhere else except Dover.
 

surfernan

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Had Zeebrugge call me up this year as I neares the entrance. Ship entering the docks. Ais gave a half mile clearance but still asked to wait and let him through . A pain as he then slowed considerably.
 

MoodySabre

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I cross Zeebrugge about a mile out (Z buoy) - the deep channel there is fairly narrow so you can cross it in a few minutes.

Having once come out from Rotterdam then AIS and calling up when crossing is understandable. Blimey it was busy!
 

Daydream believer

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It’s a long time since I was there, but I think that we had to call up when we passed the Hook, but I have never called in anywhere else except Dover.
Certain ports could not seem to care less, but some do.
I call at Ramsgate & Lowestoft if I am going . I would probably call Lowestoft, if passing close by as they do seem to get a lot of wind farm traffic at certain times.
I would call Humber VTS when within range, especially at night. They can be very helpful.
I do not normally call Boulogne, although a you tuber who lived there said that it was mandatory. I did call many years ago & got no response, so have never tried since. I always call Dieppe, regardless of the IPTS, as it is a ferry port. Sometimes I get the feeling that they find me a nuisance. Others, I get specific instructions.
I never call at Dunkirk, Le Havre or Cherbourg. I do call at St Peter Port & sometimes I get the impression I am being a nuisance & other times I get specific instructions to wait clear of the entrance for the ferry.
The hardest thing is knowing what channel to monitor when in all the different areas. One needs to know exactly how to set the radio for dual frequency & make sure that one is listening.

The annoying thing when single handing are silly DSC alerts.(the French love them) I often find that I am unable to go below, expecially if it is a bit choppy, so I have to ignore them & they turn off eventually, but they change the frequency of the radio. So if one thinks one is on 16 one might actually be on 22 or whatever. That means that one misses the important calls.
 
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WFA

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I have for many years made annual cruises from Harwich to south Netherlands via Zeebrugge and Vlissingen.
Listening out on the appropriate traffic channels (as listed on the charts and in Reeds) is invaluable as occasionally calls relate to what is going on around my route and more importantly ME. The "slow fishing boat in Sunk Outer", "boat in firing range" and last year amongst a string of double-dutch my boats name got a mention.The later was the Breskens/Vlissingen ferry informing Traffic Control that I was sharing the same track as them, CPA mid stream of a busy narrow shipping zone. There was a strong spring flood running and their SOG was 4 times more than mine. A swift course change to the east by me indicated I had heard and taken action and all was good without the need of any discussion.
Entering and leaving Zeebrugger however does require formal voice comms as it is port is always busy with commercial traffic (including hazardous carriers), seemingly endless dredging of the quays and channels, an inner harbour with a military base, port auxiliaries and leisure marinas. Once through the entrance, Lights and VHF are used to control movements between the Inner and Outer Harbour. Believe me, listening to the Port Control before and after entry\departure is essential and also removes a lot of uncertainties. Port Control and the Traffic Control Stations all use faultless English although other languages are also available.
Having said all that, for me, Zeebrugger is an excellent entry\departure port for the Schengen areas I'm visiting. Passage time is 14-18 hours (depending on the Gods), no hassle getting a berth, fuel, restaurants etc., 24\7 clearance - the RBSC HM will notify the Authorities who will visit your berth during normal hours or the Police Station is only a short walk away and their Front Desk staff have the appropriate stamps to complete your admin.
 

Daydream believer

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.The later was the Breskens/Vlissingen ferry informing Traffic Control that I was sharing the same track as them, CPA mid stream of a busy narrow shipping zone. There was a strong spring flood running and their SOG was 4 times more than mine. A swift course change to the east by me indicated I had heard and taken action and all was good without the need of any discussion.
If you look at a chart (not necessarliy a chart plotter, but certainly shown on the dutch charts & older Stanfords ones) you will see that there is an alloted crossing point from Breskens to Flushing that keeps one clear of the ferry, except for the last bit before the harbour so that call should not have been needed if you had complied with the rules
 

RivalRedwing

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The annoying thing when single handing are silly DSC alerts.(the French love them) I often find that I am unable to go below, expecially if it is a bit choppy, so I have to ignore them & they turn off eventually, but they change the frequency of the radio. So if one thinks one is on 16 one might actually be on 22 or whatever. That means that one misses the important calls.
one of the best reasons for a remote secondary station for the VHF in the cockpit
 

johnalison

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Certain ports could not seem to care less, but some do.
Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I meant when passing the entrance. I would normally call up any harbour that I was visiting where Reeds says one should call. The only time I recall failing to do this was Scheveningen, where the calling channel was some strange one we don't have, though that may have been the inner harbour.

One of the great advantages of AIS receivers is that a yacht can 'see' a ship that is out of vision, such as round a river bend, or when under way within a harbour such as Zeebrugge, which makes the business of passing aharbour much more relaxing.
 

WFA

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If you look at a chart (not necessarliy a chart plotter, but certainly shown on the dutch charts & older Stanfords ones) you will see that there is an alloted crossing point from Breskens to Flushing that keeps one clear of the ferry, except for the last bit before the harbour so that call should not have been needed if you had complied with the rules
I know I know. Unfortunately I had shaft issues so chose to cross the traffic at 90 degrees with Vlissingen Buitenhaven as the arrival point rather than waste half my power and double my vulnerability crossing a 3 knot tide - meeting a ferry or two was inevitable.
 

AntarcticPilot

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Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I meant when passing the entrance. I would normally call up any harbour that I was visiting where Reeds says one should call. The only time I recall failing to do this was Scheveningen, where the calling channel was some strange one we don't have, though that may have been the inner harbour.

One of the great advantages of AIS receivers is that a yacht can 'see' a ship that is out of vision, such as round a river bend, or when under way within a harbour such as Zeebrugge, which makes the business of passing aharbour much more relaxing.
+1 about AIS. When berthed at James Watt Dock in Greenock, it was very useful to be able to see ships in the shipping channel, even though they were hidden by the high walls of the dock. However, it did backfire once - we saw an AIS target in line with the entrance, but pointing away from us. As it was pointing away, we headed for the entrance quite happily - until I realized that the target was a double ended ferry and it was actually heading towards us - someone had forgotten to tell the AIS which end was bow and which was stern! No harm done; I had plenty of room to circle round while he passed through the entrance, but I leaned not to entirely trust AIS!
 

requiem

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However, it did backfire once - we saw an AIS target in line with the entrance, but pointing away from us. As it was pointing away, we headed for the entrance quite happily - until I realized that the target was a double ended ferry and it was actually heading towards us - someone had forgotten to tell the AIS which end was bow and which was stern!
No course vectors displayed? Those are the most useful part of AIS!
 

AntarcticPilot

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No course vectors displayed? Those are the most useful part of AIS!
Not on my Raymarine C80 chart-plotter. The target is displayed as an arrowhead with the heading in the direction shown in the transmitted data, but of course, if the transmitted heading is 180° wrong because it's a double-ended vessel and they haven't flipped the switch to indicate which end is going first, the arrow points the wrong way!
 

AntarcticPilot

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No course vectors displayed? Those are the most useful part of AIS!
The Raymarine C80 displays the vessel as an arrowhead pointing in the direction given in the transmitted data. But the vessel was a double-ender, and they hadn't flipped the switch (or whatever) to indicate which end was at the front, so the bearing was 180° wrong!
 

Daydream believer

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but I leaned not to entirely trust AIS!
One certainly cannot trust AIS fully
I was following a Halberg Rassey, under power on a calm day, from St Peter Port in the direction of Treguier (or further west which is where I think he probably went) & Lézardrieux (where I was going). As we approached the Roche Douvres on our port side, he was a mile ahead on my stbd side at 45 degrees. Going .5 kt faster
He did not show on my AIS. However a yacht a mile behind on my port side at 45 degrees showed on my AIS travelling the same speed as the one in front & tracking him exactly.
There were other boats, that I picked up OK. I could not understand why I could not see the one following.
As we got slightly past the lighthouse the following AIS target passed right through the lighthouse & over the rocks :unsure:
I turned towards Lezardrieux & the phantom Halberg carried on following the other Halberg. I tried calling on VHF to discuss, but had no reply.
I am aware that there can be irregular compass deviations in that area, but I am not sure that such issues can affect AIS unless the on board set up is wrong. If the skipper was just following a chart plotter track he would possibly not have known what his compass was doing anyway.:rolleyes:

I am confident that my system was working OK, because I checked several yachts bearings with my hand bearing compass for something to do.
 

johnalison

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The Raymarine C80 displays the vessel as an arrowhead pointing in the direction given in the transmitted data. But the vessel was a double-ender, and they hadn't flipped the switch (or whatever) to indicate which end was at the front, so the bearing was 180° wrong!
On my e7 the vectors display the direction in relation to my boat and not the chart reference, which sometimes has to be born in mind since the display includes the chart.
 

requiem

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One certainly cannot trust AIS fully
I was following a Halberg Rassey, under power on a calm day, from St Peter Port in the direction of Treguier (or further west which is where I think he probably went) & Lézardrieux (where I was going). As we approached the Roche Douvres on our port side, he was a mile ahead on my stbd side at 45 degrees. Going .5 kt faster
He did not show on my AIS. However a yacht a mile behind on my port side at 45 degrees showed on my AIS travelling the same speed as the one in front & tracking him exactly.

That's... odd. Delayed signals are not uncommon, where the position lags the actual, but should still eventually reflect the proper track.

I'm guessing an offset could be created by a misconfiguration, e.g. entering the proper vessel dimensions (e.g. 12x4 m), but then fat-fingering the offsets so it thinks the GNSS aerial is 3600 meters aft and to port. How it appears would depend on whether the display opts to place the triangle on the ship's centroid or on the reported position.

Another example of why AIS isn't technically supposed to be used for collision avoidance, I suppose.
 

bluerm166

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Although I have not found it necessary to worry Vlissingen VTS while making this crossing it is worth pointing out that Henk -Jans is a regular on these routes and travelling single handed after spending New Year on his own - so whatever the protocol I find it quite understandable that he might find it reasonable to make routine calls of this nature .In fact I have noticed that some other single handed sailors who post videos commonly do the same thing ,particularly when they cheekily want to pass the bows of a ship.
 
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