Use of "tinned" electrical cable?

[coopec]

On another forum one forumite was wanting to know how to install an inverter. I related my experience and then stated.

"I wondered how to take the power from the inverter to the microwave, bread-maker and galley bench (power point mounted high up so it doesn't get wet) I decided to use ordinary 10A electrical extension cords secured in place with electrical ties. When a domestic electrician had a look at what I had done he laughed and asked why I did that. He said it would have been much cheaper to use normal house electrical cable (as used by electricians). When I asked if what I had done was unsafe he deferred and said "No""

I had a real chuckle when a couple of forumites went berserk because I used un-tinned electrical extension cords to distribute power.

This is what one "expert" had to say.


"It all depends, do you want an amateur job that a surveyor will pick apart when you sell your boat...and maybe worse.....shock.....fire.....or do you want a proper job?.
First up any good install should be planned, not half assed. Use only tinned stranded wire, both AC and DC, rated for marine application. If anyone tells you to use household wire....disregard anything they have to say, they have no clue.

The case of the inverter should be grounded, with, from memory, one size smaller than the current carrying conductor, no smaller.

The inverter you showed had a AC hard wire connection. So hard wire it to outlets. A GFCI.

A DC supply disconnect should be installed. Support wiring.

Actually sounds like you should talk to someone on the scene....that knows what they are talking about and can look at your install and give you some clues.

Or just toss it in and keep your fingers crossed. All your choice."

How many production boats would use tinned cabling?

 

[dukeofted]

Just a quick comment on the domestic electrician, you should never use solid core cable on an application subject to vibration as it can crack.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

On another forum one forumite was wanting to know how to install an inverter. I related my experience and then stated.

"I wondered how to take the power from the inverter to the microwave, bread-maker and galley bench (power point mounted high up so it doesn't get wet) I decided to use ordinary 10A electrical extension cords secured in place with electrical ties. When a domestic electrician had a look at what I had done he laughed and asked why I did that. He said it would have been much cheaper to use normal house electrical cable (as used by electricians). When I asked if what I had done was unsafe he deferred and said "No""

I had a real chuckle when a couple of forumites went berserk because I used un-tinned electrical extension cords to distribute power.

This is what one "expert" had to say.


"It all depends, do you want an amateur job that a surveyor will pick apart when you sell your boat...and maybe worse.....shock.....fire.....or do you want a proper job?.
First up any good install should be planned, not half assed. Use only tinned stranded wire, both AC and DC, rated for marine application. If anyone tells you to use household wire....disregard anything they have to say, they have no clue.

The case of the inverter should be grounded, with, from memory, one size smaller than the current carrying conductor, no smaller.

The inverter you showed had a AC hard wire connection. So hard wire it to outlets. A GFCI.

A DC supply disconnect should be installed. Support wiring.

Actually sounds like you should talk to someone on the scene....that knows what they are talking about and can look at your install and give you some clues.

Or just toss it in and keep your fingers crossed. All your choice."

How many production boats would use tinned cabling?

I think most "quality" boats now do so.

 

[Supertramp]

Much of my electric system is original (30+years) and not all is tinned. I just replaced my pulpit navigation lights which had corrosion and blackening of the core at least 10 feet back in the cabin from the deck. Replacing was a PITA but I now have full battery voltage at the lights instead of 8V! I don't need or intend to change the main wiring looms which are dry and sound, but every replacement or addition I make uses tinned cable. Especially if it goes outside.

 

[Dellquay13]

I may be wrong, but I thought the blackening of untinned cable only happened to DC, and AC was largely unaffected.
Anodes and cathodes or something from physics lessons 45 years ago and electro copper plating penknives in copper sulphate?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I may be wrong, but I thought the blackening of untinned cable only happened to DC, and AC was largely unaffected.
Anodes and cathodes or something from physics lessons 45 years ago and electro copper plating penknives in copper sulphate?

It's oxidation helped by a damp atmosphere and unsealed ends of the cable.

 

[Supertramp]

It's oxidation helped by a damp atmosphere and unsealed ends of the cable.

Correct. And in addition to tinned cable I double shrink cover connections.

 

[ash2020]

I can't believe how rude some people are on forums and Facebook in particular. They wouldn't dream of behaving like that face to face. I'm a member of several technically based groups, 3D printing, drones etc. and it is quite unbelievable the vitriol in response to perfectly innocent questions. I have had several heated discussions with, dare I say it, Americans, who don't get British humour, notably irony.

 

[coopec]

Much of my electric system is original (30+years) and not all is tinned. I just replaced my pulpit navigation lights which had corrosion and blackening of the core at least 10 feet back in the cabin from the deck. Replacing was a PITA but I now have full battery voltage at the lights instead of 8V! I don't need or intend to change the main wiring looms which are dry and sound, but every replacement or addition I make uses tinned cable. Especially if it goes outside.

How can it corrode when the terminal is insulated properly? Of course tinned wire can corrode too.

 

[Dellquay13]

It's oxidation helped by a damp atmosphere and unsealed ends of the cable.

When I first came across the problem on my first boat, a 1972 dellquay dory, it only seemed to affect one cable core, but I don’t remember if it was the positive or negative. I found the same happened to untinned cabling for 12v dc systems I repaired under the damp food conveyors at a famous sushi bar chain. The audio cables (AC) installed alongside didn’t need replacing.
I used tinned cable last week when doing some work on my boats 12v system, but it was only about 2m of rewiring so minimal extra expense

 

[38mess]

When I did some wiring on my boat around ten years ago a guy in the yard who just walked up to me almost blew his top because I was using ordinary wire from Halfords. He said it wouldn't last a year. It's still like new 10 years later.

 

[coopec]

I can't believe how rude some people are on forums and Facebook in particular. They wouldn't dream of behaving like that face to face. I'm a member of several technically based groups, 3D printing, drones etc. and it is quite unbelievable the vitriol in response to perfectly innocent questions. I have had several heated discussions with, dare I say it, Americans, who don't get British humour, notably irony.

There are people out there that have not the slightest idea but they think they are so expert. Ask them to build a boat and they wouldn't know where to start.

 

[coopec]

When I did some wiring on my boat around ten years ago a guy in the yard who just walked up to me almost blew his top because I was using ordinary wire from Halfords. He said it wouldn't last a year. It's still like new 10 years later.

I went to a Chandler about two months ago and asked the price of some cable. He gave me the price per meter and then as an afterthought said "We have some tinned cable too if you want to go down that track"

 

[Supertramp]

How can it corrode when the terminal is insulated properly? Of course tinned wire can corrode too.

That should do it but I usually shrink sleeve over the first shrink layer. My corroded wires had not been shrink covered and ran behind headlinings.

As I said, most of my wiring is original, untinned and in good condition, located in a dry, ventilated area. But if and when I add wiring runs I use tinned - it's a relatively small extra cost and hopefully lasts without worry.

It cannot be essential since cars don't use it? But they don't usually last for a half century.

 

[penberth3]

How can it corrode when the terminal is insulated properly? Of course tinned wire can corrode too.

Electrical insulation does not equal waterproofing. The sleeved terminal you have show is not waterproof. It will corrode under the sleeving.

 

[geem]

I went to a Chandler about two months ago and asked the price of some cable. He gave me the price per meter and then as an afterthought said "We have some tinned cable too if you want to go down that track"

Over here the chandlers only sell tinned wire. You can cut corners and get away with untinned wire. I have some in my boat that is not tinned. The places where it would be crazy to use untinned wire is outside. Solar panels, mast wiring, nav light etc. My original tinned wire that the boat was built with is perfect at 43 years old. I really don't think untinned would have lasted so long

 

[coopec]

Electrical insulation does not equal waterproofing. The sleeved terminal you have show is not waterproof. It will corrode under the sleeving.

Don't tell me a heat shrink terminal is not waterproof?

Well tinned wire can corrode too in those circumstances if they get wet.

 

[coopec]

Over here the chandlers only sell tinned wire. You can cut corners and get away with untinned wire. I have some in my boat that is not tinned. The places where it would be crazy to use untinned wire is outside. Solar panels, mast wiring, nav light etc. My original tinned wire that the boat was built with is perfect at 43 years old. I really don't think untinned would have lasted so long

Apparently production boat builders don't use "tinned" cable.

 

[coopec]

"Tinned Wire vs. Untinned

I get a lot of questions regarding tinned versus untinned wire, with many people believing that tinned wire is the only choice viable in the marine world.

Let there be no doubt, the tinning has no impact on amperage-carrying capability, it’s there to help mitigate corrosion migrating along a conductor under the insulation jacket via capillary action. There are tens of thousands of boats plying the waters of the world using untinned wiring that provides good service, and this has been true for decades!

Untinned copper wire (left) is used in boats with good results, but tinned wire (right) is better able to resist corrosion, both at terminals and in capillary action along the wire.

Is tinned better? Sure. But is it a game changer? I would argue no, as long as you keep the ends of your wiring away from exposure to water, which is generally considered good practice anyhow.

Marine-Grade Wiring: Give Your Boat the Good Stuff - boats.com

 

[Keith-i]

Apparently production boat builders don't use "tinned" cable.

Of course not; it costs more.
I only use tinned cable which as said, can and does also corrode but to a much lesser degree. Any heatshrink I use is adhesive lined. It all helps in my view to reduce the chance of failure.