Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple post

[jimi]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
I think what Mitch is saying is that if he see's a vessel that might be a problem to him he maneuvers the rib so that the flag can be seen by that vessel, simple as that.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you think about it, then that is not practical if he is to windward unless he leaves his divers drives up beside me points to his flag and then scoots back to them, however in a busy area he will be a busy bee .. much better to do the simple thing and follow what is prescribed in CR.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

I don't identify it as a dive boat - I assume its a dive boat until I find to the contrary. Just precautions, we don't get many divers round our way.

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Can't win can I!!
So after they've ignored my newly installed rigid flag (which I fear they may) how do I stop them potentially killing my diving friends.

I've completed over 1000 dives, mainly from boats, some with floppy flags some with rigid flags, and all the skippers have spoken of this problem. Just trying to raise awareness!

Thanks for keeping the post at the top of the list.

Jimi, just read your latest post....i travell at 90 degrees to you, across your track so hopefully you'll see me and think "I wonder whats he's up to?" and pay attention.

Note to self :I'm sorry I'm not perfect, must try to improve.

 

[mel80]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Well, if its any consolation, I've learnt somthing from your post. I always thought that dive boats remained stationary with divers down, so if I'd seen one moving about, I'd have assumed that it was just a fixed flag. I'll know better from now on.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Yes indeed, RIB / Orange with A Frame at stern / stationary.

Waddya reckon Sherlock? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]

Waving arms is an international distress signal and would have the effect of attracting boats closer to you rather than warning them off.


[/ QUOTE ]

I made the point earlier, when I was waved at to effect a rescue.

But, the thread has raised some serious points and questions.

Firstly, instead of waving at boats, which can and will be misinterpreted, I would be more inclined to hold up an A board at any boats in danger of entering your dive space.

Secondly, orange ribs, stationary boats et al do not indicate 'Divers' and indeed, a moving boat would signal to me that it wasn't a dive boat.

I will never assume anything, but will always give wide berth to a boat that clearly shows an A flag/board. What is even more confusing is the need to recognise the Diver down flag flown in the USA, which is a red flag with a white diagonal.

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

thanks to everyone for all posts, we've all learnt something. hopefully we can all get along together and use the water safely.

Enjoy the summer now it's finally here......maybe!

 

[Nauti Fox]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think about it, then that is not practical if he is to windward unless he leaves his divers drives up beside me points to his flag and then scoots back to them, however in a busy area he will be a busy bee .. much better to do the simple thing and follow what is prescribed in CR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what your saying Jimi and so does Mitch as he's said that he'll try a board, but I still don't think it will make much difference apart from being completely covered if one of the divers gets run over. They did have the orange surface floats as well, so how do you stop boats (remember one of them was a dive boat) ignoring you?
Would this sort of thing work, but with an A flag?

 

[jenku]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

I have been wondering some time about this rigid flag display thing visible from all sides. I think a board would never do. To be clearly visible from all sides it would have to be some kind of three-sided thing at least?

I thus propose the colregs to be changed like this:

"boats indicating divers in the water are to show a flag A painted on at least three sides of a blimp or hot air balloon tethered directly above the boat at at least 10 but not more than 30 m height. During darkness the aforementioned contraption has to be illuminated".

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

certainly would is some cases.......
the incident i linked to in my first post involved a diver ascending up a permanantly installed "shot" line which leads down the the dive site (wreck, reef etc)
They usually are just a bouy on a rope, so look just like a fishing pot marker or similar. Didn't stop the poor lady getting sqaushed by a big boat though.
The diver had amazing presence of mind!!!! As she was bouncing along the hull of the boat she inflated her bouyancy device so that if she cleared the prop at least she would end up on the surface........brave girl!! It probably saved her life /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif!!

 

[HoratioHB]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Think I might throw a small grenade into this debate. I regulalry dive between Lyme regis and Swanage including Portland Bill and other areas. Quite often we go down in one location - normally a wreck and the dive boat can 'guard' us. However we often do drift dives. Put 5 buddy pairs down for an hour in some of the tides we get and they will be seperated by over a mile (or even more) by the time they come up. We always use surface marker bouys so the dive boat can track us but frankly its presence is not going to help us when we come up. I have spent quite some time on the surface waiting for pickup while he is away helping others first.
So I guess my point is that I expect to take some degree of responsibility for myself and am always very very cautious before surfacing and always us an SMB. So if you see a small orange sausage on the surface please treat it with some circumspection - maybe we should attach a diver flag to them ??

Mind you if you are just East of Plymouth near the James Egan Layne and Scylla, the three hundred ribs milling about are probably a clue to what is going on!!

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
I have been wondering some time about this rigid flag display thing visible from all sides. I think a board would never do. To be clearly visible from all sides it would have to be some kind of three-sided thing at least?

I thus propose the colregs to be changed like this:

"boats indicating divers in the water are to show a flag A painted on at least three sides of a blimp or hot air balloon tethered directly above the boat at at least 10 but not more than 30 m height. During darkness the aforementioned contraption has to be illuminated".

[/ QUOTE ]

Thankyoooou!!!! I've been wanting to say something like that, but was scared!! Just hope the powers that be don't read this otherwise..........it could come true!!

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

you'll be chatised for poor dive planning now!!! surfacing away from the support boat, that's very bad form!!!
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The yacht I had to talk to at the weekend was heading straight for a pair of divers who were on the surface. I was getting another pair back on board at the time. I had to leave them to go and "defend" the others........need eyes in the back of your head sometimes.
When diving offshore I use a 8 foot "sausage" inflated from it's own compressed air bottle. Doesn't stop them getting a bit to close for comfort sometimes though!

 

[HoratioHB]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

I can plan my dive, but I cannot predict the tide, who is going to stop where for lobsters scallops etc or swim off in different directions. Unless we have one boat per diver this is a fact of life that I am prepared to accept.

 

[flaming]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
Think I might throw a small grenade into this debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good plan.
Throw grenades, the divers will bob up to the surface, then you can avoid them.
Easy.

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

totally agree, but wouldn't it be nice for boats to give us a bit of a slightly wider berth sometimes?

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Think I might throw a small grenade into this debate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good plan.
Throw grenades, the divers will bob up to the surface, then you can avoid them.
Easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif they can catch the fish at the same

 

[searover]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Dont mater what you do to improve safety awareness, cos if a boat is willing to tack, into! and under! the bows of a row row, im damed shaw the same skipper would run over a diver. brains that work proper, cant be drumrd in. there born that way ...have a nice day...

 

[fishermantwo]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
I can plan my dive, but I cannot predict the tide, who is going to stop where for lobsters scallops etc or swim off in different directions. Unless we have one boat per diver this is a fact of life that I am prepared to accept.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have the correct attitude Horatio. Divers have to be responsible for their actions and accept they are in a dangerous environment and be prepared to be separated from the others in the water, especially when there is a strong current. Dive operators have proven in this country that they can be extremely untrustworthy and have left divers for dead.

A few years ago now my vessel and several other commercial fishing vessels were engaged in catching kingfish. We were idling in a tight circle going clockwise, probably 200 metres across. Chumming with live bait and pulling kingfish out of the circle. A local dive operator appeared and broke into the middle of the circle, his divers jumped over the side with their sausages and spearguns, the dive boat bloke started to wave us away. Obviously we ignored him and reached for our microphones and reported the incident. The divers not realising the strength of the current were quickly swept out of the circle and down the coast. Because we were idling we are able to hold station. The dive operator was later reprimanded for approaching too close to commercial fishing vessels.

Only a few weeks ago I was preparing to run a net out in the estuary at about 0200 in the morning. There was a light I thought on the bank which I presumed was an amateur fisherman. I went a bit closer hoping they were walking along the bank on their way home. When about 20 metres away 2 divers emerged from the water and climbed up the bank. That time of the day they were obviously returning from stealing from lobster pots.

Plenty of horror stories about divers. Obviously there have to be some sensible ones somewhere.

 

[tcm]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

yep, i posted as much on t'other forum.

Think we had a rya instuctor a couple of years ago preaching the same thing, but... if the dive boat had no rigid 3-way alpha "flag" 1 metre high minimum....

I have only ever seen one dive boat with such a structure, ever.