Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple post

[mitchc]

Finally a break in the weather allowed me and some friends to go out and enjoy some diving.

As I quite enjoy sitting in the sun relaxing whilst my mates go diving, I was skipper of our 6mtrs bright orange RIB for the weekend. It’s usually a nice and peaceful once all the noisy divers have submerged, and hence very relaxing.

Not this weekend though!!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Despite flying this flag:

: Diving operations are indicated by flying one of two nationally recognized "Diver Down" flags, or navigation lights if at night. Either signifies a danger area. Stay well clear of diving operations because divers can easily stray from the diving vessel. The key point indicated by this flag is the vessel is restricted in the ability to manoeuvre.

I had to put the RIB in the way of at least six boats, both power and sail to prevent them running over my divers. All our divers use orange or red surface marker “sausages”.

This may get boring but I’d like anyone who reads this to take note of the following:

BBC Accident report
MCA accindent report Scary huh?

Two incidents at the weekend stand out and the stupidity of the skippers take some believing: first green and white sail boat using engine power only got to within two boats lengths before my shouting got his attention. He turned away, without any sign of apology! I asked/shouted if he knew what the dive flag meant, he ignored me. I shouted if he would like to apologise; he raised his hand a few inches and continued on his way!!!!

Second incident: Big aluminium catamaran, which unfortunately appeared to be a dive charter boat. Speed probably 20knts, with huge wake (would have made a great photo!) Despite me waving and putting the RIB in his way, the boat made only small changes of course and didn’t reduce speed. His passengers were waving at him to change course. He eventually passed within 25mtrs of one of my diving pairs, who were only 3 mtrs below the surface completing their decompression stops!
Unfortunately I was too busy trying to avoid being rammed to make note of the boat name, even though it wasn't very clearly marked on the hull! When I find out it will be reported to the MCA
Surely if a boat is in your path waving and shouting you'd slow down to check what's up.....wouldn't you? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Can you mention this to all your boating friends, if it stops once diver getting turned in fish food, it'll be worth it!

Thanks
Mitch
(sorry about the multiple posting!)

 

[flaming]

What part of the world were you diving in?

 

[jimi]

[ QUOTE ]
What part of the world were you diving in?

[/ QUOTE ]


It tends to be the oceanic layer, although sky divers have been known to use the troposphere but I suspect a diving flag would be irrelevant there.

On a more serious note, to the original poster , how big and how visible is your dive flag?

 

[LadyInBed]

In your little RIB you will see an approaching vessel and perceive a danger long before the vessel sees you.

 

[mitchc]

[ QUOTE ]
In your little RIB you will see an approaching vessel and perceive a danger long before the vessel sees you.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but I think you should be able to see another boats madly gesticulating skipper and then react to it?

 

[poter]

I am disgusted......where do these skippers learn their skills? as an ex diver with some 1000 plus dives logged, I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of even professional boat drivers when it comes to understanding what a prop can do to a human in the water.
The most terrifying noise to a diver is the roar of a boat engine in their proximity.

poter.

 

[poter]

agreed especially if its in a known diving area!

 

[mitchc]

[/ QUOTE ]
On a more serious note, to the original poster , how big and how visible is your dive flag?

[/ QUOTE ]

About a mtr sqaure, on a 1mtr flag pole on the A frame, backed up by a madly waving fool!

 

[pessimist]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Take your point entirely but perhaps the value of the flag is reduced by the number of ribs flying while moving out to sea at thirty knots. You were behaving correctly, sadly there are plenty who do not.

Not much excuse for ignoring the waving though!

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

On a more serious note, to the original poster , how big and how visible is your dive flag?

[/ QUOTE ]

About a mtr sqaure, on a 1mtr flag pole on the A frame, backed up by a madly waving fool!

[/ QUOTE ]

The other week I saw a boat with the driver standing up, holding onto a pole. It was only as I neared that he moved enough for the diving flag to become visible.

Then, three weeks ago my attention was caught by a man madly waving so I went closer to investigate. It turned out that they wanted a tow as they had ingested a ski tow rope into their impeller.

So, if I had seen you 'madly waving' do I assume you wanted me to come closer, or stay away?

The solution is, get a nice big flag and if there is no wind then 'stiffen' it with something as a limp blue and white flag is not much of a warning.

 

[Cornishman]

I note that nowhere in your complaint do you say that you were observing Rule 27 (e) (ii) which demands that in a small vessel engaged in diving operations a rigid replica of International Code Flag "A" not less than 1m in height shall be shown and that measures shall be taken to ensure its all round visibility.
As a former professional yacht skipper and instructor I was often infuriated to come across a RIB with one or two sitting in it with a broom handle supporting a limp flag "A" which was not distinguishable as to its meaning until we were almost upon it. Often these boats were from a professional and commercial diving school, too.
Altering course in a 72 foot gaff schooner with about 12 sails set was not easy, particularly if it entailed a gybe.
I make no excuses for ill mannered yotties, I am just trying to put another point of view.

 

[runswick2000]

Of course things are never simple are they?

I'm no diver yet even without a flag it is pretty easy to spot which boats have divers down even from a distance.

Even so, to take my local area as a case in point (Swanage bay), if I were to head out of the bay, cross Peveril Ledge and then round Durlston Head I would find it very hard to stay more than 50 metres from the plethora of dive ribs and boats on a busy weekend.

I guess what I'm trying to say it this: even as a responsible and generally sensible skipper of a motor craft, it is sometimes exceedingly hard to avoid dive boats which have parked up en mass in a very busy thoroughfare. It would be frankly unreasonable surely to expect all passaging craft to detour around the dive boats as they could end up on a busy day having to go out and round the Kyara!

None of this of course excuses dangerous or ignorant behaviour.............but thanks for raising the issue, anything which highlights a potential problem and in doing so avoids an incident must be good?

 

[mitchc]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Don't mind if you come close, but do it slowly and carefully so I let you know whats going on.

 

[mitchc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no diver yet even without a flag it is pretty easy to spot which boats have divers down even from a distance.

Even so, to take my local area as a case in point (Swanage bay), if I were to head out of the bay, cross Peveril Ledge and then round Durlston Head I would find it very hard to stay more than 50 metres from the plethora of dive ribs and boats on a busy weekend.

I guess what I'm trying to say it this: even as a responsible and generally sensible skipper of a motor craft, it is sometimes exceedingly hard to avoid dive boats which have parked up en mass in a very busy thoroughfare. It would be frankly unreasonable surely to expect all passaging craft to detour around the dive boats as they could end up on a busy day having to go out and round the Kyara!

None of this of course excuses dangerous or ignorant behaviour.............but thanks for raising the issue, anything which highlights a potential problem and in doing so avoids an incident must be good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks John,
we were diving out of swanage on Sunday and it was great to see it was busy. I agree that sometimes it's difficult to keep your distance....thanks to those that do.

As you say at least the post has generated some discussion, which may help save a call out of you and your mates.

 

[graham]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no diver yet even without a flag it is pretty easy to spot which boats have divers down even from a distance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im no diver either but that statement is pure bullshit.

 

[mitchc]

easy tiger.....play nicely

 

[graham]

Bit blunt I agree. But after 2 long threads trying to encourage boats to give divers a wide berth and dive skippers to display decent markings then someone who should know better comes out with that,unbelievable.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm no diver yet even without a flag it is pretty easy to spot which boats have divers down even from a distance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im no diver either but that statement is pure bullshit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave Snelson said a similar thing on the MOBO thread. In three years, I have only ever seen two dive boats and I cannot see how a stationary RIB can be readily identified as a dive boat. The one I saw, the skipper was leaning on the flag pole, so nobody could even see it.

My ability so see under water is clearly not as good as others.

I know exactly what a dive flag looks like, but unless you make it visible.........

 

[Robin]

We all want to avoid injury to divers but commonsense is needed on BOTH sides. The area from Studland to St Albans is very popular for divers yet is the M25 for vessels moving along the coast. The tides here run strong and so many, often commercial, dive boats have 'flags' painted on a wood panel fixed on the boat and laying fore/aft. Not only are these 'flags' left in place when the boats are on the move and clearly have no divers down (even on their mooring) but in strong tides like in the area mentioned the fore/aft flags are invisible to boats approaching with/against the tide, the boats themselves often look like (or are) fishing boats or crab/lobster boats so NO it isn't always obvious. Also this area is full of RIBs so nothing unusual to see a cluster of them, often fishing or just messing around in a group.

We have been asked too when off Portland Bill and wanting to pass via the inshore passage close off the point to go out into the overfalls of the race in order to avoid a multitude of divers down in the calm water area. Good luck asking but don't be surprised if the request to divert into the rough stuff is politely refused.

Please read this in the spirit intended because I fully agree we should keep clear of divers, just that a) it isn't possible always to know from any distance and b) not always possible or wise to comply with a request to make a substantial diversion.

 

[runswick2000]

Re: Urgent help required on a safety matter (sorry about the multiple

Perhaps it's just a geographical thing. I live in one of the busiest diving areas in the country. I would love it if all dive boats did exactly as they should and flew the appropriate signal and that everyone else reacted as they ought to. Sadly this isn't always the case.....hence this thread.

Therefore (and as I said, perhaps this only applies in my locale) I make the following assumptions when out at sea in whatever vessel:

If it is a rib it may be a dive boat
If it is also orange then it's more likely
If it is also stationary then it is even more likely

I'm not able to see underwater but I am able to apply a little common sense judgement to avoid taking un-necessary risks around vessels which might have divers under them.