Update on Yachting Monthly and PBO

[CLB]

Bet you're a white man. Am I right?

You could say that about 98% of the people on here and you would be right. What's your point?

And yet you seem to care very much that a qualified expert might be appointed in part because she's a woman. As long as she knows her stuff, why would you care?

That's not what I said at all. In fact I said the very opposite of that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

... I'll come back and ask about the other mags later, but for now, if you are a Yachting Monthly reader:

What do you like about it? What don't you like? ...

With all due respect, I think you are asking the wrong people the wrong question. If you want to increase circulation, you should be asking people who don't buy the magazine what puts them off.

Years ago I was seconded to an organisation which ran holidays for children. They had huge problems finding customers, which puzzled them because they surveyed their regular customers to ask what they liked about the holidays and always got positive responses.

So I tried a rather different approach. I surveyed people who had asked for brochures but not booked what put them off and I surveyed customers who had booked once and never came back (95%!) to ask what the problems were. The responses were most enlightening. Alas before I could do much about it my secondment ended and they slipped back into their introspective ways ... ten plus years later they still have a smaller turnover than they did then.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You could say that about 98% of the people on here and you would be right. What's your point?

In the rather glib expression of American students, we white middle-aged men need to check our privilege. You (and I) exist in a world which appears to be overwhelmingly like us. The magazine are written by people like us, about people like us and therefore, by implication, for people like us. If you want to know about sexism in yachting, don't ask men. If you want to know about racism on the streets of Birmingham, don't ask white people. If you want to know about homophobia in Glasgow, don't ask straight people.

That's not what I said at all. In fact I said the very opposite of that.

If all you care about is competence, why do you object to the idea of looking for competent women?

 

[CLB]

In the rather glib expression of American students, we white middle-aged men need to check our privilege. You (and I) exist in a world which appears to be overwhelmingly like us. The magazine are written by people like us, about people like us and therefore, by implication, for people like us. If you want to know about sexism in yachting, don't ask men. If you want to know about racism on the streets of Birmingham, don't ask white people. If you want to know about homophobia in Glasgow, don't ask straight people.



If all you care about is competence, why do you object to the idea of looking for competent women?

I didn't say I object to looking for a woman, I said look for the right person and if it happens to be a woman, no problem. I object to looking to fill quotas for the sake of it. Is that really that difficult to understand?

 

[CLB]

Just to follow up. Both YM and PBO were edited by Sarah. Did the quota of female staff/writers go up during her tenure. If not, do you think she is sexist?

 

[doug748]

Eh up,

Has anyone noticed that the boss is a girlie?
Count me in on the pogrom anyway, I am well looking forward to Diane Abbott on small boat stability.

Back on planet earth:

Quote " ........If a tame Yacht Surveyor could be found for a similar, regular column that could be good. And perhaps a Broker as well, though they tend to be a rather tight lipped breed. "

Delivery Sippers are another possibility or Charter Skippers. They must to a certain extent be willing to be indiscreet, be able to write, tell a tale and not be shy of calling a spade a shovel. A nom de plume may be called for with more interesting stuff, with luck.

With boat reviews you sometimes feel you have learnt nothing at the end. The supplied specifications have become less and less over the years and are often a fraction of what Sailboatdata eventually uncovers. If manufacturers fail to cooperate there is no shame in saying so. I would also like to be reminded of where a new model sits in the company line up, how well the last one sold, and the level of sales, so far, for this one.

 

[Tranona]

There was a good series a few years ago with a surveyor joining a potential buyer (usually a couple) in reviewing and inspecting their short list of potential purchases. Very good at identifying the purpose of the purchase and criteria for choice then testing the boats out against those.

Agree with earlier posts about the video supplements to the tests. Fortunately when I was buying Chris had done videos on two out of three on my short list and there was a similar Australian one on the third. These were invaluable on not only going further than the written test but as a reference point when doing the armchair sifting of information. There is only so much you can take in when viewing a boat, so having the videos was a good reminder.

 

[reginaldon]

Bet you're a white man. Am I right?



And yet you seem to care very much that a qualified expert might be appointed in part because she's a woman. As long as she knows her stuff, why would you care?

PC raises its (very) ugly head

 

[Mark-1]

He's a terrific writer and has done some of the kind of sailing I like to read about - Topsail and Battleaxe is a cracking read. But, nah, his magazine writing isn't a big draw for me. )

Changed my mind. His latest column in ST just popped up on FB and I had a quick read because this thread was still fresh in my mind. He's a bloody superb writer. I'm not remotely interested in the topic, but his turn of phrase makes it a compelling read.

First class sailing journalist.

 

[Heckler]

There was a good series a few years ago with a surveyor joining a potential buyer (usually a couple) in reviewing and inspecting their short list of potential purchases. Very good at identifying the purpose of the purchase and criteria for choice then testing the boats out against those.

Agree with earlier posts about the video supplements to the tests. Fortunately when I was buying Chris had done videos on two out of three on my short list and there was a similar Australian one on the third. These were invaluable on not only going further than the written test but as a reference point when doing the armchair sifting of information. There is only so much you can take in when viewing a boat, so having the videos was a good reminder.

My wife loves sewing, much as I like playing with engines and fixing things, she also loves fixing things, her smaller fingers and better eyesight help me when I am "fixing" things. She has 5 sewing machines and we actually hand carried an ancient old Singer 201k on the plane to Faro for the boat. We both fixed it, fitted a new Taiwanese " engine" as she calls it. Stripped and adjusted the tension control on it and now it sews like a good un! It is powerful enough to replace screens in the sprayhood, going through five layers with ease. She is fascinated by all the tools that come with it like a zipper foot and knows how to use them. She used this whilst making mozzy screens and it is in her article next month. Now if I say why arent more women writing about stuff like this for PBO, that perhaps I will be accused of being sexist? Am I?
Stu

 

[pvb]

My wife loves sewing, much as I like playing with engines and fixing things, she also loves fixing things, her smaller fingers and better eyesight help me when I am "fixing" things. She has 5 sewing machines and we actually hand carried an ancient old Singer 201k on the plane to Faro for the boat. We both fixed it, fitted a new Taiwanese " engine" as she calls it. Stripped and adjusted the tension control on it and now it sews like a good un! It is powerful enough to replace screens in the sprayhood, going through five layers with ease. She is fascinated by all the tools that come with it like a zipper foot and knows how to use them. She used this whilst making mozzy screens and it is in her article next month. Now if I say why arent more women writing about stuff like this for PBO, that perhaps I will be accused of being sexist? Am I?
Stu

It's good that she's able to do these jobs on the boat, and write about them in PBO. But I really think that the number of people who might be interested in doing the same themselves will be very, very small. This type of article won't ensure the continued publication of PBO.

 

[Heckler]

It's good that she's able to do these jobs on the boat, and write about them in PBO. But I really think that the number of people who might be interested in doing the same themselves will be very, very small. This type of article won't ensure the continued publication of PBO.

Over the last three years on our journey south we have met loads of peeps, liveaboards and people like us that spend months at a time on board. The vast majority of them have sewing machines on board. Whether it is politically correct to say that the wives seem to be the ones who are interested in them it is a fact and the sundowner drinks time is when she shows the other girls what she has made and how she has done it. The article she has written is about using the sewing machine but is also more about making something that costs over £40 for a few pence. So very PBO ish. So I will disagree with you there.
Stu

 

[pvb]

Over the last three years on our journey south we have met loads of peeps, liveaboards and people like us that spend months at a time on board.

How many of them buy PBO regularly, I wonder?

 

[Tranona]

My wife loves sewing, much as I like playing with engines and fixing things, she also loves fixing things, her smaller fingers and better eyesight help me when I am "fixing" things. She has 5 sewing machines and we actually hand carried an ancient old Singer 201k on the plane to Faro for the boat. We both fixed it, fitted a new Taiwanese " engine" as she calls it. Stripped and adjusted the tension control on it and now it sews like a good un! It is powerful enough to replace screens in the sprayhood, going through five layers with ease. She is fascinated by all the tools that come with it like a zipper foot and knows how to use them. She used this whilst making mozzy screens and it is in her article next month. Now if I say why arent more women writing about stuff like this for PBO, that perhaps I will be accused of being sexist? Am I?
Stu

Not sure why you quoted me as my post was on a completely different subject!

However, I agree with you. There is a place for that type of article in PBO, as there have been many in the past by "other halves" on similar subjects. Sure they are of interest also to the male part of the crew, even if they don't have the skills to do it themselves it shows what is possible to achieve if you have the skills and the right gear.

 

[dolabriform]

These are simple questions, maybe, but after looking through the first ever PBO I have to ask them as the landscape has changed so much.

Who are the target readership of PBO and YM?
Originally and traditionally they would have been in their 30's and upwards I'm guessing, and they were a captive readership i.e. no internet to look things up and limited publications available in libraries. Who are they now and how can you appeal to them in print?

How has the market / industry changed?
In the heydey of sailing, there were new technologies and boats coming to market almost every year. Now it's pretty much settled down and it's rare that anything revolutionary comes to market. Coupled with the fact that "young" people aren't buying yachts in droves, let alone sailing or maintaining them.

Yet Sailing schools are busy, where are these sailors and what are they doing?
The other threads about sailing in the 60's, death of sailing as we know it etc seem to suggest that now people are learning to sail, and rather than spending time owning a boat they are spending their money on yachting holidays abroad.
So maybe they are the future target audience.

What do they want?
Well this is the difficult part. By asking the question on this forum you are appealing to those who are seasoned sailors and not the new generation of readers going through schools and chartering / holidaying abroad ( feel free to jump in and shoot me down if I am wrong and this is you! ).
If this is the case however, then I feel that the OP needs to start canvassing sailing schools and charter companies to find out how they can appeal to those sailors and maybe even show them a side of UK sailing that will encourage them into sailing and ownership here. This could only be good for the UK industry.

I do agree with all the posters that combining PBO and YM into a single publication would be a very good idea. I feel that the combination of different types of articles would expand the mind of the reader and possibly persuade them to consider owning a boat and sailing in the UK.

How to confront the digital world?
This is one of the hardest and also easiest questions to answer!
I have only been a boat owner for a year, and whilst I have found many answers to questions using this forum and the internet, I have also come across things that wouldn't have been available without publications such as YM and PBO.
One amazing article was on anti-fouling, where different types were tested in different areas of the UK over a year. This was a scientific (ish) study, and I felt a very valuable one. This could have been augmented with time lapse ( a shot taken every week to show the growth ) or even video of how much effort was needed to remove the fouling. This way a written article could be enhanced by digital media, and you only get it if you are subscribed.

All the above is my personal opinion, I await the fun replies

 

[JumbleDuck]

I didn't say I object to looking for a woman, I said look for the right person and if it happens to be a woman, no problem. I object to looking to fill quotas for the sake of it. Is that really that difficult to understand?

But "being a woman" may, for very sound commercial reasons, be one of the criteria for establishing who is the "right person". It's not as if there is only one person in Britain able to fill each category in the expert panel.

You'll doubtless be aware that there is a good deal of concern about the dominance of women in primary teaching and that strong efforts are under way to attract more men into teaching posts in order to give boys more role models. Do you find that equally objectionable?

PC raises its (very) ugly head

"PC" is a derogatory name for manners, courtesy and mutual respect used by people who have little time for any of them.

If you followed the "SWMBO" thread to which reference has been made, you will remember that several women posters said that they found the constant assumption of maleness on these forums very wearing. I think their opinion is valuable,and they have far better insight into what it's like to be a woman sailor or poster than I can ever have.

 

[Heckler]

How many of them buy PBO regularly, I wonder?

Dunno, but they recognised me from my mugshot!
Stu

 

[obmij]

Agree fully with the above posts regarding more women and BAME contributors but this should not preclude the 'sexing up' of the magazines by at least 200%

YBW should take a leaf out of their advertisers books and stop presenting the reality of boat ownership altogether (which statistically speaking, is a 62 yo white male in a thinsulate hat and overalls, failing to launch a mid size bilge keeler on the east coast for 7.3 years)

Yeah, if you want to sell, follow the successful boatbuilders and do not show any pictures of boats without a 8/10er minimum at the wheel.

 

[pvb]

Dunno, but they recognised me from my mugshot!

Of course, you're a celeb!

 

[Andrew E]

Really sad to hear about all the redundancies at PBO. David, Ben and all the people in the Poole office are great and I hope they all find something.