Unsinkable... so was the Titanic... etaps et al....

Why don't you ask Etap for a definitive answer? As already stated it has been physically demonstrated that not only will an Etap stay afloat when full of water but can still be sailed. I beleive it was as a result of this test that the French certified them for offshore use without a liferaft.
 
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There was a large "unsinkable" sloop which hit a reef and was severely damaged in the Red Sea some years ago. It made it to port without sinking. I wouldn't say it was very seaworthy near the end, but it did get back. It was in YM IIRC.

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Very true, I have the article tucked away somewhere.

The boat, an Etap 38i, was still floating high in the water (over 1 mtre freeboard), the photo showed her being towed with the crew looking as happy as anyone can be after removing the saildrive on a reef. Suppose they were happy that they were not on an ordinary boat!
 
Hi Oldhand..
the issue really is.. why dont they claim the reserve buoyancy figures ??..
They COULD be superb, but, when someone says - unsinkable .. and doesnt show HOW.. it makes you wonder..

back to the original question.. with a fully equipped and 'normal' liveaboard rig and kit.. (Usually 4 inches lower in the water !) /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.. how is it then ???

Omission of facts is always worrying.. not saying they are not a good AWB overall, just sceptical of the claims due to omissions if used away from the Solent lakes etc...

Joe

ps, it would also be a bit of a bugger when the resuce boat sinks it due to a hazerd to shipping cos its floating awash with the deck.. and.. where is the shelter without a raft ?...

Purely curious.. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
The problem with watertight bulkheads is that on a small yacht is that one would have to ensure that the doors remain shut on passage and what happens on a 40 ft boat when the collision breaches a bulkhead?

As for the doubt about Etaps, that's been around since the early 70's when the construction process was first introduced. Yes there will always be the cynics who don't or refuse to understand.
 
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As for the doubt about Etaps, that's been around since the early 70's when the construction process was first introduced. Yes there will always be the cynics who don't or refuse to understand.

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Modern day Ludites
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Lol, understand WHAT ??? exactly ??

I am taking serious liveaboard use with full kit..

Answer still seems ro be.. glug glug...

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Well instead of pontificating why don't you ask ETAP. You are clearly asking a loaded question. If you don't believe ETAP's answer then offer to buy one on the condition that you will load it with normal kit - whole it and then expect complete compensation if it sinks. Of course if it doesn't then you will just be an cynic proved wrong, with a lot of wet gear and a significantly devalued boat!
 
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Yes there will always be the cynics who don't or refuse to understand.

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He seems to understand perfectly well. He's just asking exactly how much weight can be supported when holed. Seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.

It would actually have been quicker for you to answer the question than comment on the ignorance of those who don't know.
 
"He seems to understand perfectly well. He's just asking exactly how much weight can be supported when holed. Seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.

It would actually have been quicker for you to answer the question than comment on the ignorance of those who don't know." - yes but its not possible to simply say it will support a mass of 2000kg (for example) as that 2000kg will have some inherent bouyancy of its own. e.g. 2000kg of polystyrene will float by itself, 2000kg of steel will not. Most other materials will be somewhere in between. On top of which - as someone else pointed out not sinking is only part of the equation if it ruins the stability and it capsizes.
 
So eloquently put old boy..

BUT... will it support a NORMAL cruising live aboard mass of weight.. ???? and still float.. me still thinks NOT... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

AND, YES IT IS Possible to quote the buoyancy overlap ... you simply STATE what it will DO.. dont give me negative waves re buoyancy lol... you can delude yourself everyday that my bag of rice will float... but it is simply PPI Immersion with a total effect on the abilities fo the boat.. it may not, for example.. be semi immune from capsize in asemi filled state.. before you are sunk.... sounds good.. me thinks its a bit of a larf really.. another sales gimmick really... great boat.. apparantly for an awb.. but no proof of survivability in the context of the marketting claims they make....

AND NO.. I should NOT have to email them etc to find out the truth of the claims they make.. I should have to look no further than their web site.. but.. it appears to be omitted.... so, no I wont ASK them anything. it is not up to me to justify their claims.. only to look objectively at the 'market' and the hype. and the oft' false sense of security it brings...

Still, nobody has been able to come up with an answer..??

DoDoooDoDoooooooooooooooooo...

X files.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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yes but its not possible to simply say it will support a mass of 2000kg (for example)

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So you are also one of the "cynics who don't or refuse to understand" exactly how bouyant they are?
 
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yes but its not possible to simply say it will support a mass of 2000kg (for example)

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So you are also one of the "cynics who don't or refuse to understand" exactly how bouyant they are?

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Would love it if you explain yourself please ?. I can only answer if I understand the question Sir.
 
I'd like to be able to provide a scientific answer, but unfortunately i can't. But I assume that the information that Etap publish will take into account the loading of the boat in cruising trim. Etap use the criteria set by the French Marine Marchande, which I believe is the only marine authority to do so.

The OP questions the ability of the boat to withstand the loading of gear to an extent where the boat sits 4 inchs deeper in the water, when holed. I would need some others input on this but if the boat, even empty, will float with a metre of freeboard, why would it plunge to the depths when it's payload is increased as suggested. Wont it sit in the water 1 metre less 4 inches (sorry to mix units there)?

I am afraid that knowing these forums as I do, I feel there is a degree of mischief in the way this post has developed. Sorry but just a feeling I get. An Etap is a strange choice as a livaboard, although they do have more space than one might imagine and all that foam helps keep you warm/cool/quiet. They certainly do not fall into the AWB category, for instance, our 35i is one of 56, hardly volume production is it?!
 
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AND NO.. I should NOT have to email them etc to find out the truth of the claims they make.. I should have to look no further than their web site.. but.. it appears to be omitted.... so, no I wont ASK them anything. it is not up to me to justify their claims.. only to look objectively at the 'market' and the hype. and the oft' false sense of security it brings...

Still, nobody has been able to come up with an answer..??

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AND NO.. I should NOT have to email them etc to find out the truth of the claims they make..

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Why not? YOUR the one who want to know, not me!!! If you REALY are considering an Etap as a livaborad, ask the question.

No sorry, you dont want to know do you, looking at the rest of your post, you have confirmed my initial suspicions. You are have a wind up, its a trol!

Well, I for one wont waste any more time on this one! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
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I'd like to be able to provide a scientific answer, but unfortunately i can't.

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So you also 'don't or refuse to understand'?

Glass houses and stones...
 
It's not really that bad. Even if the doors are open in anything other than a catastrophic collision there should be time to shut the doors and then pump the other compartments.
 
hi, i,ve got a little old baby onea 26, and yes its filled with more foam than you can think. The hull in a hull constructions, is filled then so are a few major compartments! Ita a pig to add any deck fittings or thread cables etc note.

Good points for me, well unless you are totally run over, then a bad hole means you stay up, else back up with a life raft...

If you are to live on then space is taken up of course by all the b. foam. But the insulation properties are great, and we get no condensation at all. I am very pleased her, and the backup from etap.

Oh and that’s why the etap has got a duck symbol, its doenst sink ,, and that is the real reason !

Over and back to the cynics , I,ll duck now.
 
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